Sept. 12, 2021

Cindy Tackled Over a Year of Hurdles and Title Issues to Make $42k on Her First Flip


I'm excited to share our FlipSister Cindy's first flip journey. It was a doozy! 

Cindy had purchased her first flip prior to joining our coaching program. And shortly after she joined she told me she was going through a title issue on this property. 

She was in the middle of flipping it and some heirs came along saying that they had a right to this house and they hadn't been paid at closing. 

Cindy ended up in litigation for over a year. I've been there, so I understood what she had ahead of her and what she'd be feeling along the way. 

She recently sold that house and got out of that mess, and is here to share her story.  

And guess what? She's not letting this experience get in her way, and she's going to keep on flipping houses! 

I relate to her story on so many levels. It's hard to get knocked down, and then get back up and go do that thing again, without second-guessing every move along the way.

But yet, we do it. 

Among many others, one of the morals of the story here is never ever skip buying title insurance. By not purchasing title insurance, you're potentially setting yourself up for massive loss. There are so many ways you can mitigate your risk when running your house flipping business and buying proper insurance is foundational. 

GOODIES

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Debbie DeBerry | The Flipstress®
Leaving people and places better than we find them.

Transcript

Unknown Speaker  0:01  
You're listening to the flip houses like a girl podcast where we educate, empower and celebrate everyday women who are facing their fears, juggling family and business, embracing their awesomeness and wholeheartedly chasing their dream of flipping houses. Each episode delivers honest to goodness tools, tips and strategies you can implement today to get closer to your first or next successful house flip. Here's your spiky haired breakfast taco loving host house flipping coach, Debbie DeBerry.

Debbie DeBerry  0:40  
Hey, how's it going today? Thanks for spending some time with me. You're going to love this conversation with one of our flip sisters, Cindy. She's in North Carolina. And her first flip was a doozy. All right, talk about challenges and hurdles and issues, oh man, and it hits real close to home. So she ended up in a deal where there was a title issue. And I too, found myself in a deal with a title issue shortly after my mom died, right. So I'm already low, real low, as low as I could be as low as I'd been in my life. And then I was in a deal about to sell a house that I had put so much love into it was ready for its new owners. And then a title issue came up, literally days away from closing on the sale. And this title issue. There was fraud involved on the other side, unfortunately, and just I got caught up in somebody else's family drama. And I was the one that took the brunt of it. So it was very painful, emotionally, financially. It took, oh, gosh, it took almost two years to resolve. And it was one of those deals that knocks you to the ground and kind of takes the air out of you. Like I came back up. And I was like, Oh my gosh, what just happened? And my confidence was shot. And how did I miss something? And where did I go wrong? Because that's what we do. Right? Where did I go wrong? We start blaming ourselves when in fact, I had nothing to do with it. And there was nothing I could have done to stop anything from happening. It was entirely on the sellers side. And there was just fraud and, and family drama. So none of it involve me. But again, I was the one that took the biggest hit emotionally and financially. So when Cindy joined our coaching program, and she told me that she too, was going through a title issue on a property that she bought before joining our program. She had already bought this property, she was in the middle of flipping it and some errors came along saying that they they had a right to this house and they weren't paid off and such and such. And they too, ended up in litigation. And she's going to share her story. She finally recently got out of that deal sold it made a great profit. And guess what? She's gonna go do it again. And I relate to her story on so many levels. It's hard to get knocked down, and then get back up and go do that thing again, without second guessing every move along the way. But yet, we do it. So one of the morals of the story here is never ever skip buying title insurance for those investors who think they're saving money. Wow, a whopping 1000 bucks here and there. By not purchasing title insurance, you're setting yourself up for potential massive loss title insurance saved me. Title Insurance saved Cindy. So control what you can and buy title insurance for crying out loud. I'm excited to share Cindy's story with you. Here we go. Um, so how about we just get into it by introducing yourself like a little bit of background about you where you're located, and that sort of thing.

Unknown Speaker  4:52  
Okay, sure. My name is Cindy Visser and I live in Raleigh, North Carolina. I am first generation and And then my family so am I like mom, my dad with chemo from the Netherlands, which is usually a pretty interesting point for a lot of people because there's not very many first generation people that you run into as often anymore. I am an accountant by my day job. I also sell Pampered Chef, which came in handy holding this for so long because it helped cover a lot of the holding costs. And I am single for mama to two of my pride and Joy's Roxy ruin Harley boom.

Debbie DeBerry  5:32  
Oh, my gosh, I love that. Alright, so let's backtrack when you joined the program, you already purchased a house. Is that right? And you had started renovating it?

Unknown Speaker  5:46  
I yes, I had I, I started, I was interested. It's kind of a funny thing at the end of the story. I don't know why. But what got me on this path is that I went through a very hard separation and divorce. And it got to the point where I was like, I just needed something that was mine that I could. So in 2017, I decided to take the jump. And I probably took the wrong jump because it was a very expensive jump. But in the long run, I believe that nothing, no choices. You there's always something you gain out of your choices. And even though I joined the wrong program upfront, I it led me down a lot of paths that got me to where I am now. And if I hadn't taken that jump I may not have ended there. I don't know. So

Debbie DeBerry  6:35  
I totally get that.

Unknown Speaker  6:36  
Yeah, so I i think i joined your group. Oh, gosh, I think I want to say in January or February of 2020 some right? Yes,

Debbie DeBerry  6:49  
I think so. Uh huh.

Unknown Speaker  6:50  
Yep. And I had purchased this house in October of 2019. Okay, and my plan was to have I gave myself six to nine months, ideally 16. I mean, six months, but I knew that since it was my first I was giving myself the flexibility that it could take up to nine. It was kind of a struggle from the beginning. But part of that is again, it was a learning process. And it was a slow start, like even even the clothes, even the closing on this property, like I guess part of the thing so that I found this property. So one of my biggest struggles with this business is finding the deals like I've done, I've done the letters, absentee owners, I've done the drive for dollars, and I just, I bet I sent out almost 1000 letters, and I maybe got two back, which is very low percentage wise. So but this one came to me from another fixin flipper, who I had asked for advice for on a previous property I was trying to make a bid on and it didn't work out. And he's like, you know what he says, I have this property that I got in gold. Oh, it was from a state sale. He said, but I am so busy in Raleigh right now that I'm willing to wholesale it to you. Okay. So he, yeah, he wholesale, he was gonna wholesale it to me for 45. And I couldn't come up with the closing costs for that. So he said, Well, I'll give it to you for 40. I said, Okay, and I believe the numbers work and I got the money to do that. And so it was kind of a verbal agreement. He says if when you're done, you make money, you'll pay me that 5000 out of the end if you don't, it was a learning experience.

Debbie DeBerry  8:39  
Okay, okay.

Unknown Speaker  8:41  
So I mean, you know, so but so we were supposed to originally Klout close like the beginning of October but with all that stuff, so by the end of October, we finally closed on this property. Okay, October 2019. For 40k 40,000 Okay. Yeah, my nice said my original timeline was six to nine months. I had hoped to spend about 32,000 I think was my original Yeah, 31 six was my original rehab estimate. Okay. And at that time, the ARV is in the area. We're anywhere from 105 to 110 Okay,

Debbie DeBerry  9:18  
nice little first flip.

Unknown Speaker  9:20  
Yeah, so I was looking to make a brown 20,000 depending on where in that range it went. So you know for the smaller housing market I thought that was pretty good. It was a nice was mostly cosmetic. There were a few structural items I had to take care of. I had to I spent a whole weekend under the house on my back working on joists so you know,

Debbie DeBerry  9:40  
gosh,

Unknown Speaker  9:42  
again, some things I learned I'm going to do a lot less on the next one. I'll just you know up my rehab budget.

Debbie DeBerry  9:50  
Exactly.

Unknown Speaker  9:51  
So yeah, but I mean other than that, I mean the Joyce and it needed a new roof and a new h fac. But the rest was All cosmetic stuff in the house. So it seemed for my first flip a doable flip.

Debbie DeBerry  10:06  
Yeah, yeah. Right. And I mean 20k is about 20% of the ARV. That's a pretty strong profit margin. Yep. Okay. Yeah. Okay. So you start doing the rehab. And, well, you take us on the journey.

Unknown Speaker  10:27  
So I guess because of my uncertainty of the directions to go, it took me a little while to get into it. So I think it was probably another month to a month and a half before I really started seeing some stuff happen. Okay. I struggled at the time to find contractors in the area to do stuff. But I, I reached out to my local Ria. And I also did like Angie's List home project just to find try to find people and so I was finally able to find a roofing guy. Which that's one of my few quotes that actually came in under what I ran out what I budgeted. So that was good. $15 under I was excited.

Debbie DeBerry  11:06  
That feels good.

Unknown Speaker  11:09  
So I got the roof done pretty fast. There was a back window that had to be fixed. I got so I saw that it was pretty much it was water tight because it wasn't when I bought it. Okay. Okay. So that was done and I had to get the H back repaired, which that was more expensive, but I got that repaired all back even before 2020. And then I started doing a lot of the cosmetics inside myself. Okay, I had a guy come in and do some drywall work. And I created a laundry room in an area of the house because initially it was in the kitchen. Okay. So we did all that. So I was it was slow going, but I was making progress. And then along came March.

Debbie DeBerry  11:50  
Okay, so march of 2020 is the Yep. Okay, march of 2020. The bomb hit?

Unknown Speaker  11:56  
Yes, I got a letter in the mail from a lawyer out in Goldsboro. And I was like, Huh. So I opened it up. And lo and behold, I guess there were some heirs that came out of the woodwork and said, Hey, we should have an interest in this property. Oh, my gosh. So I did have title insurance. So I highly recommend everybody. Yeah, title insurance title, like I do recommend something that I did not have is to have to pay a little extra for that title. insurance covers your costs

Debbie DeBerry  12:29  
as Yes. Uh huh. Yes. Lessons. I did not have that. Okay. At least you had title insurance, though. I like the number of investors that I hear that are trying to save some money by not having title insurance. It's like, I will never regret that cost. I will always regret not having it though. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  12:53  
No, it's true. It's true. And you know, and I, and again, at the This was my first flip. I didn't, I didn't know the things like things you might want to have. I mean, I just figured out title insurance. I know that I have to have that. I'm good. Which, in the long run? Yes, I was good. It would have been nice to pay. I don't even know how much more that would have cost me. But, you know, I've just totaled up while we were sitting here waiting for the meeting. And so in my extra holding costs during that almost, probably about a year it took I spent an extra $18,000 in holding costs, though it didn't get back, which if I'd had that extra amount I paid in the title insurance, I would have got that back. Got it. Okay,

Debbie DeBerry  13:37  
so the errors show up saying we should have interest in this property. And next thing you do first of all, you're like, I'm sure you're like, Wait, what? What is happening here? Um, yeah. And then you do what you reach out to your title company.

Unknown Speaker  13:54  
Yeah, I reached out to the title company, which then put me through to the I guess they wrote the policy, but they wrote it under the national title insurance play. So I then I reached out to them. And I reached out to the people that I bought it from the whole guy who sold it to me because he also got served. Because his name appeared on it at 1.2. I mean, he's the person who actually purchased the property first.

Debbie DeBerry  14:16  
Yes.

Unknown Speaker  14:18  
So yeah, so I reached out and the title insurance got me in touch with an attorney who they retained. And so he went through all that and I think I think I reached out to you because I got so frustrated like they the the heirs agreed to a price which was less than what I purchased, what would they lost out on and they were nitpicking and trying to drive it down. And I'm thinking, Oh, my gosh, I understand you don't want to pay out but I'm losing money.

Debbie DeBerry  14:48  
Right? Exactly. Right. The one person who did like I mean, you did nothing wrong, very similar, very similar to the experience I had did nothing wrong and everybody around me was making Me, and I'm like, wait,

Unknown Speaker  15:01  
I know. And I and I part of me wonders, like if I had paid that extra, if they would have settled quicker, because they would know that I'm also incurring costs. So the longer they wait, the more they're losing on the other side. But I, you know, it's you know, looking back, hindsight, 2020, but

Debbie DeBerry  15:18  
she's just don't know. Absolutely, absolutely. Okay. So, I mean, was it just the process of because every time anybody gets a new document, it's another 30 6090 day waiting period? Was it just that that dragged it out so long?

Unknown Speaker  15:35  
Well, that and they were, you know, they were nitpicking the amount. But then again, we also had in March, April, we had COVID, here too. So of course, everything had to be remote. Or if they had to meet in person, well, I don't even think back then they were meeting in person at first. So it's like, everything had to be done differently. Yeah. People weren't in the office or weren't doing things the way they normally would operate. Right? So and everybody was still trying to learn how to function in COVID. So it just took a lot. And even once he said, I want to say that was like an eight or nine months, okay, we've settled, it still took another two to three months before, like, the paperwork was signed by everybody. And it was filed and registered. And he said, okay, you can go back to work. Oh, my

Debbie DeBerry  16:27  
gosh.

Unknown Speaker  16:28  
So it was it was a long period of time that I was so stressed.

Debbie DeBerry  16:35  
I know. I know. I know.

Unknown Speaker  16:36  
So it was was it 12 months. It was probably around then because I want to say yeah, the letter came into February, beginning of March. And I see I have my mileage tracker here from when I don't say any more than I'm just checking on property. Let's see. So march of 2020. Yeah, March 36th. of 2020. I actually went on there to start working some projects. Okay. Okay. So it was about a month. I mean, I'm at a year, sorry,

Debbie DeBerry  17:05  
about a year. And I mean, you're left with the uncertainty of will do i do anymore? Like, do I do I? Yeah. Right.

Unknown Speaker  17:17  
So there were projects. When I first got the letter, there were projects that I did finish out, because I'm like, I have already lined up the guys. And I just so like, had lined up some Well, this, it was friends. But I mean, still, they had taken time that they were going to come and help me finish out painting. So I did stuff like that. But I just tried to focus on things that really didn't have any cost because either I had the stuff or so I did do some work on it after I got the letter. But then there was a good portion of that year that I didn't because I either had to buy more stuff or hire someone. I'm like, well, that's still unknown. I don't know if I should do that or not.

Debbie DeBerry  17:56  
Right. I mean, you don't want to eat more money. Way too much uncertain. Yeah. I'm okay. So the emotional roller coaster of that is just, and until you've been in something like that. It's the waiting, the 3060. The waiting where, and everybody drags it to the very last day. And it's just so maddening. When it's like, Can we just do this? Like, let's just get this over with? Let's figure it out, get it over with and move on?

Unknown Speaker  18:31  
Yeah, and I mean, that's one of the reasons why I picked up the Pampered Chef business because I had, well, $686.55 I had to pay on that loan from Lima capital every month. And then it that's it, it was good for a year, but my year was up in October of 2020. So then, every extension cost me another, you know, I could pay 5000 up front or 1000 at the end. And they would only do three months or so. So that was you know, extra costs Plus, you know, you had you couldn't turn off the electricity. So you had the electric costs and yeah, city water costs. So I mean, and the insurance Yeah, there's so I mean, those kinds of type of costs just kept coming in as well. Yeah. So I started doing Pampered Chef, so I could have some extra money to come in just to put towards those costs. Yes.

Debbie DeBerry  19:25  
I love it. You had to do it. You had to do I love that. It's whatever you got to do to pay the bills. Exactly. Exactly. It might not be your dream job, but you've got to pay the bills. Yeah. Okay. So, alright, so the year goes by, slowly, painfully. And you're out of that the legal portion of it. It's all settled and you're done. And then you go back in because then you've you've still got some things to finish.

Unknown Speaker  19:54  
Yeah, I mean, I still had flooring so I had had a flooring quote and December of 2019. For an I was going to do luxury vinyl plank, and I had carpet in the bedrooms. But otherwise I was pretty much doing luxury vinyl plank everywhere else in the house. And I had that quote, and they'd actually came in under what I had budgeted. Nice. And of course, then I got the, I got this notice, and I'm like, Oh, well, I'm not gonna, I'm not gonna spend you know, $6,000 on something that I don't know. Right. So I put that off. So then once everything was said, and done, I got another quote. And of course, again, COVID. And just put carpet throughout everywhere except in the bathrooms in the kitchen, which I did. I did laminate, which is much lower grade than what I was originally planning on doing was still more than what I had budgeted. It's just

Debbie DeBerry  20:51  
yeah, supply chains and all of that. Yes, yep.

Unknown Speaker  20:53  
Yeah. So yeah. And then, I think, I don't know if I mentioned in the group because I know what my work got busy too. And I didn't, I couldn't make as many meetings but so you know, I had done the H fac way back when, right? And so I go in and one day and I'm like, okay, it's the air zone, but I don't feel anything. So it turns out there had a Kevin a cat that got underneath the house and tore up all the ductwork underneath. So there was another $1,000 pinned to the H factor, redo all the ductwork

Debbie DeBerry  21:28  
and stop the bleeding.

Unknown Speaker  21:31  
I know I'm like What else? And then so yeah, I mean, there were more so like, I finally got to put in the new fixtures into the bathrooms. And I turn the water on and nothing happens. And so I unhooked and I'm like trying to snake and I ran it and the pipes were completely closed close. Like there was I had to like I put was it car? Oh, and I was I was just looking at it with a snake I was to like a break through and I'm like, Oh my gosh, I'm like I I'm like this house if it doesn't break me. I don't know what's gonna be there was just thing. I mean, I don't know. Honestly, I can tell you how I there were a numerous times I laid on the floor in the middle of house and I just cried because I'm like, I don't think this is ever going to finish.

Debbie DeBerry  22:18  
Yes.

Unknown Speaker  22:20  
And I mean, yeah. And the ironic thing, and that's why I said in the beginning the ironic thing, the thing that brought me to this was my divorce. But person who actually helped me out the most my ex he actually came and helped me work on this house a few times. Wow. Yeah. I mean, cuz we're still friends. Yeah, we were better friends not being together, then we we did work together. Sure. I mean, it was just, yeah, it was just very ironic that he was the person that it turned out, I could count on the most wow friend to actually wanted to do this business with me in the beginning. We did a lot of the handiwork upfront, just kind of bailed on me. Oh, man.

Debbie DeBerry  23:02  
So I'm glad he came around. And like, I'm glad you had some sort of support. Yeah. Okay, so when you. Alright, so you get back in, you start putting everything back together and fixing things that you already fixed? What did your renovation end up coming in at? So you had initially thought around 32 without the carrying costs and all that because I know that's a different story altogether. But what did just the renovation coming out?

Unknown Speaker  23:39  
So not taking into account like the closing and all those fees and everything? So the actual renovation budget, so I originally budgeted at 31? Six, okay. And all said and done, I came in at 40 210? Man,

Debbie DeBerry  23:52  
that's not bad. I mean, considering what happened. We're in the world. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  23:59  
No. And I mean, I say all these little because COVID here, but the truth is, if COVID hadn't hit, I would have lost close to 20,000 on this on this thing. Wow. Because the home value. So I told you originally the home values are between 105 and 110. Yeah. When I finally got in part of me wishes I had maybe research that a little sooner than I did, because I might have done a few other things on the house. But that's a whole other story. But when I finally got to the point that I'm like, I just have to list it. Yeah, yeah, win or lose. I just have to list it. And so I started researching and I called a realtor to confirm because I'm like, Is this true? Like it's showing like the values are now between 160 and 180? And she's like, She's like, No, you're right. Okay, I'm feeling a little better about this.

Debbie DeBerry  24:54  
Wow. Wow. Like oh, my god. Oh my gosh, I Not just COVID hitting but the lawsuit happening. Like, all everything had to happen the way it had to happen. I don't know, man. I don't know. Okay, so what did your profit end up being?

Unknown Speaker  25:16  
So, I, right now I'm showing my profit is about 40 to 150 42,000 150 bucks.

Debbie DeBerry  25:26  
And that's including all the additional finance charges and

Unknown Speaker  25:31  
yep and my mileage like, Guys, I because of all that going to check on the progress, the property is not close to me it's 100 round trip is 115 miles. Oh, wow. Okay,

Unknown Speaker  25:40  
so I drove close to 7500 miles on this project. Yeah, because I even when I couldn't work on it about once every other week, I drove out there because I'm like, I still get it when people could be breaking the windows and Brett bustin it right. But luckily, I had the person who lived next door to me. I let him park his trailer in my side yard. And in exchange, he mowed my yard the whole entire time. Oh, wow. But it also made it look like somebody lived there. And honestly, if I had to pay to have Lance, like, have my lawn mowed the whole year, too,

Debbie DeBerry  26:15  
right. So that's, you know, well, I mean, I don't know, I don't know, you tell me. Do you trade, knowing what you went through knowing the emotions of what you went through? Do you do it again for that profit? Or do you make a much smaller profit and not go through the legal stuff?

Unknown Speaker  26:44  
Oh, my gosh, you know, that's, I don't you know, I don't know my true answer to that. Because I'm much grayer now than I was a year ago. But I mean, I did I learned I learned so much. I mean, I don't wish this on anyone who had fixin flips houses, because it was horrible. Yeah. I cried more than I want to admit. Yeah. And I, I doubted myself. Multiple times. Yes. And but I learned so much. Yeah, I mean, I create, you know, I don't know. Yeah, you I probably could have went flipping houses for years and been okay. Right. But the fact of all the stuff that I learned on this, I it was so painful, a very valuable flip. I learned a lot of stuff. Yeah. Whether I wanted to or not. I know, I know,

Debbie DeBerry  27:45  
I say the exact same thing about the the title issue that I went through, I say the exact same thing. And it's for me, and you just touched on it. For me the worst part of it all. Yes, it was emotionally draining, and just very stressful. Mine was almost two years. But the worst part for me, was the confidence hit. Even though I had nothing to do with everything that happened. It was coming out of that thinking, I did something wrong. What did I do wrong? How do I not do that wrong again? What else wrong can happen? Like? No, it's so? Yeah, yeah, no,

Unknown Speaker  28:39  
no, it's a thing like you now I know, next time, and I may never need it. Again. I'm paying that extra on the title claim on the title insurance that I'm going to get reimbursed if it happens again. You know, for my time on there, right. I realized that friends are better friends, if sometimes you don't have to work with them. So you know, I, you know, because yeah, they nickel and dime you over everything. And then they don't show up when you really need them. And so you know, but that's not their job, either, you know, you you know, so they have their own lives. And so that's fine. But, and I did a lot more on this project than I probably will do on future projects. Like, I probably still be my own GC just because it's bikin schedule people. You know, that's fine. I can do that from wherever I don't necessarily have to or if I can get someone. I guess it all depends on what works for the numbers on the house, but you're in and there's a lot of stuff I want to do on this house that didn't get done just because as I said, after, you know, a year and a half of holding this property, actually almost close to two years early on. Like it was just time it was time to just bite the bullet list it and be done. And so that's what I did.

Debbie DeBerry  29:57  
Yeah, amen to that. When did you finally close on the sale?

Unknown Speaker  30:03  
July 28? July 20, I believe it was okay of this year. So yeah, how much July August, September, October, but three months shy of two years?

Debbie DeBerry  30:16  
Oh, my gosh. But still, the most inspiring part to me is that it knocked you down. so freaking so many times. And you're like, your mindset about it, your attitude about it is it's just it's so awesome, because you still want to do it. I do. Yeah. And I mean, it couldn't have gone any, like, it just went so poorly. And you're like, all right, like, you get that it doesn't mean anything about you. I think that's the hard part. Right? When somebody has a really hard flip. Just like my one of my really hard flips, I was like, oh, it must be about me. No, sometimes just terrible things happen to good people.

Unknown Speaker  31:02  
No, it's true. There's a lot of times like, you sit there and say, like, after a while, you're like, what am I doing? What did I do to the world that they're like, just keep an eye on me. I don't understand. You know, I think of myself as a fairly good person. Right? I just don't understand. Right? And it was and like that, you know, I'll admit, I lost a lot of fluid out of my body out of my eyes. Because yes, it Yeah, like, I yeah, every time you turn around, like I thought I was doing fine. And then there's a cat that destroyed all the ductwork or, you know, I got a free vanity from a friend. I'm thinking, Oh, that's money, I don't have to spend and then the pipes are all clogged. And. And you know, but then I there's other things like I look at that I'm very proud of myself. Like, I found that I actually like making things and I made that vanity for the master bath because it was such odd proportions, like the room itself was massive. But they put everything so close, like the plumbing for the toilet, and the plumbing for sink that you just had no room. And so I'm like, you know, so, you know, I learned a lot of things that I actually did enjoy. And I learned a lot of things that I realized that though I enjoy that doing that on my own house. I will enjoy it more supervising on the next one.

Debbie DeBerry  32:20  
Yeah. What's your favorite part of the flip? Is it just kind of everything? Or is there one specific thing?

Unknown Speaker  32:28  
No, I mean, I think just seeing the, I think I posted before and after pictures on the site, but just seeing the changes that you made and knowing that Yeah, I did that, you know, like, I didn't physically install the cabinets in the kitchen and the countertop, but I made the choices and I picked out was gonna go and and the same thing like with the vanity and stuff. Like I had no idea how that was gonna turn out. I just knew that I couldn't find anything at Lowe's or Home Depot or wherever that was going to fit the dimensions I need. And then I'm like, wow, that came out really great. And I did that, you know, I mean, I physically did. So, um, so yeah, there's a lot of different things that I really did enjoy about it that I learned. Yeah, but I learned I didn't know about my Yes, exactly. Like I knowing if I knew ahead of time that I was going to have to go through this and had to choose yes or no, I probably would have chose no back then. Because I'm like, I wouldn't I wouldn't survive. Yeah, but now I know that. Yes, it sucks. And it's emotionally. Yeah. I've it's probably almost more painful than my divorce. I can make it you're stronger than you think you are.

Debbie DeBerry  33:42  
You've got it inside you. It just, it just needs to be brought out you but you got it. You it's in you. That is the most important message I think anybody can hear. It's in line with what I often say is that the most important thing, like the thing that will hold somebody back the most is if they don't trust themselves, that if they don't trust that whatever comes up, they'll be okay. It might be awful. It might suck so much in it might physically emotionally financially be completely draining. But you'll be okay.

Unknown Speaker  34:23  
No, it's true. You you you find strength that you probably never knew you had until you you're faced with that. And does this make me a little gun shy? Well, yeah, I mean, it's always gonna be in the back of my mind, but then I'm like, but if you don't jump, that's the same thing with this one. That's one of the reasons like when it came into my lap, I'm like, Am I scared to do it now? Yes, but if I don't do it now when so it's like if if it's something you want to do, you just got to go ahead and do it. Exactly. You can think about it. You can plan for it. You can strategize. You can do pros and cons, but at some point, you just have to do it. You don't know what the future is gonna hold? You don't know. You just you just have to do it.

Debbie DeBerry  35:05  
Yeah, you're totally right. utilize all the ways we can to protect ourselves. And yeah, and jump it but yeah, it's scary. Yeah, yeah, but you did it anyway. And all of this terrible stuff happened and you're gonna do it anyway, again? I am. I am. It's incredibly inspiring.

Unknown Speaker  35:29  
I appreciate it. I hope other people can, like I said, if that's what the push they need to make the jump. Like I said, it's it was a rocky job. I mean, in the long run, you know, COVID and the whole to having to hold for a year, you just don't know. And that's part of the thing. If you're, you're always going to, if you want, if you're waiting for that perfect situation. It doesn't exist. As much as you'd like it to. There's always a catch. Oh, my

Debbie DeBerry  35:58  
gosh. 100%. Yes. 100%? Yes. That's the I mean, I think that's such a great way to wrap up the conversation. Because I mean, yeah, you couldn't say anything more. That's so? Because that is something we hear often. Oh, the timing. I want to time it. Oh, it's not the right time? Oh, no. It's never the right time. You just have to do it.

Unknown Speaker  36:23  
It's true. And and that's why I wasted two years, like I was just waiting for the planet slide. And that's never gonna happen. You just if you if it's something you want bad enough, you just you just have to do it. And so that's the point that I got to and everybody has a different trigger. And I'm not entirely sure. Well, I do know my trigger for 2017 to start down this road. I don't know exactly what my trigger was to jump on this house. But whenever that trigger is, if it happens, you just have to go with it. Yeah, there's a reason.

Debbie DeBerry  36:56  
Yes, yeah. Follow it, follow it. Don't talk yourself out of it. It's too easy to talk yourself out of it.

Unknown Speaker  37:02  
It is and don't give yourself the time. I mean, you can always second guess yourself. But if your initial instinct is that this is this is it? Yeah. It is it is it, whether it's good or bad. It's it. And that's what it says time.

Debbie DeBerry  37:17  
Yes, that's it. I mean, the initial the initial reaction is the gut, right? And then our brain gets involved. And once our brain gets involved, then we start talking our gut out of everything, and second guessing ourselves and questioning and I don't think so. And yeah, trust that initial, that initial nudge that initial vibe. Yeah. Oh, my gosh, Cindy, I Oh, I know, you couldn't wait to sell that house. I was just I knew because I knew what you were. I knew the pain. And I just was like, God, get her out of this. Just get her out of this. And so I'm so glad you're finally out of this. And I'm so glad it didn't break you in such a way that you're not going to do it again. I'm glad that it's just you're like, we're gonna go again. We're gonna do it.

Unknown Speaker  38:11  
Yep. No, and yeah, that's all you that's Yeah. You can't like you. Same thing. You know, you take that how you teach your kids when they're learning to walk? Yeah, you're gonna fall down. But you just got to get up and do it again. And eventually it becomes habit. Right. You're good at it.

Debbie DeBerry  38:25  
Yes. Exactly. Exactly. Well, this has been awesome. Thank you for sharing your story with us. I'm so glad that we we finally got to share it.

Unknown Speaker  38:37  
No, I am too. And thank you so much for asking, and that I can share it with everybody else. And I hope they all get something out of it. Because I i got i get lots of everybody else's. So I appreciate it.

Debbie DeBerry  38:46  
Oh, for sure. For sure. There's tons of there's tons. And because that's the thing, right? It's not always gonna go perfectly. It's not the right. It's not always going to go perfectly. And so what? No, sure if you survived it, and I'm so glad I'm so glad you're here. So glad you're part of the tribe. And thanks again. I appreciate you. Thank you, Debbie, thank you so much for that you give to Oh, absolutely. My pleasure. All right, Cindy, I'll see you in the group. Yes. Thank you. Bye. Thank you. Bye. Oh, Cindy, I am so glad to have finally been able to share your story and celebrate with you that you survived this not ideal. First flip. Well, I mean, in some ways it wasn't and in other ways it was your profit was huge. But man, having to handle all the things that came your way. And all the challenges getting knocked down multiple times. And you survived. Man, you are just, you're awesome. Thank you for sharing your story with us. There were So many pieces of wisdom, Cindy shared, and I hope that you're taking some of those away with you. For example, there is no such thing as the right timing. the right timing is when you will commit to go and doing the thing, period. There's no right market, there's no right season. There's no right anything except for you, and when you are going to show up. Also, trusting yourself. I'm gonna say it probably in every single episode, you notice, I'm not the only one saying it. The guests are saying it too. Because it's a huge part of it. You've got to trust yourself. You absolutely can do this. If you've been sitting on the sideline, waiting years or decades, and you don't want to go this alone. And you want to have systems and processes and steps to follow and you want to have an amazing community of women, supporting you every single day and coaching you and guiding you. That's exactly what we do. And that's why our program is so successful. We support you. We don't just teach you the steps. We walk with you as you implement. All right. If you want to see if we're a fit to work together, schedule a quick call with us. Go to her first flip comm schedule a quick intro call and see if we're a fit. But show up for yourself. All right, you got this. Go chase your dreams. Alright, go out there. flip houses like a girl. lead people in places better than you find them and make it a great day. Bye, y'all.