Dec. 11, 2019

Over $60k On Her First Flip in an Expensive Market on an MLS Deal!

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"My market is too expensive to flip in, Debbie! It can't be done!" Or how about, "There aren't any deals out there, Debbie!"​

Wrong. And wrong. 

At some point, you have to realize that every single thing that is holding you back from being successful in this house renovating business is coming from inside you - your head.

​People in far worse conditions and circumstances have clawed their way to success. And there is no reason you can't do the same. 

Everything you perceive as an obstacle can be overcome.

I love this chat with Adele Tan, who obliterates the excuses of "too expensive of a market" and "there aren't any deals."

Tune in to learn the following:

  • What app she uses to find deals (hint: it's free! Please stop paying for those silly guru-promoted platforms that are a waste of money.)
  • How she gets her offers accepted(it's something you've heard me say time and time again)
  • Her views on staging the house to sell
  • How she juggles homeschooling her children with her house flipping business

...and so much more!


1. Join First Flip Done Right™before doors close Dec 11!

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3. Learn more about Debbie DeBerry | The Flipstress

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Intro: You're listening to the flip houses like a girl podcast where we educate, empower, and celebrate everyday women who are facing their fears, juggling family and business, embracing their awesomeness and wholeheartedly ceasing their dream of flipping houses. Each episode delivers honest to goodness tools, tips and strategies you can implement today to get closer to your first or next successful house flip. Here's your spiky hair to breakfast, taco loving host house flipping coach Debbie DeBerry.

Debbie DeBerry: Hey, you guys. I hope that whatever you're up to today, you're having an easy one. Okay. Before we get into today's episode, which I'm incredibly excited to share this conversation with you, I want to of course do a listener shout out, so this one goes out to dash underscore. JC says, wow, I'm loving your podcast. It was exactly what I needed to learn about flipping houses and your passion and personality are added bonuses. Thank you. Well, thank you. I appreciate you being a listener and I hope that if you are getting value out of this podcast, would you please rate and review wherever you listen. Actually, I think iTunes is the main one where it's important. If you listen on iTunes, would you please leave a rating and a review? It helps me reach more likeminded women and if I can instill in one more woman out there that she absolutely 100% can be successful flipping houses, then that's my goal. So anything that you can do to help me, I am grateful and thank you for being a listener and taking time out of your day to share feedback with me. I am super grateful. Okay, I'm excited. Let's do this. Let's jump into today's episode where I'm having a conversation with Adele tan and she is located in Southern California. Okay. So I would say there are two big objections that a lot of people have that Adele smashes into pieces. She obliterates these objections. If you've been thinking that you're in a market that's way too expensive, that flipping houses wouldn't work because it's too expensive of a market or if you think there's no way you could ever find a deal off of the MLS, I want you to listen because Adele is flipping houses in a very expensive market. She's in Southern California, she's finding her deals on the MLS and she is successfully flipping houses. You guys, I can't wait to share this conversation. So stop making excuses. I guarantee you that there are many, many, many more who are doing so successfully. Any objection you have, it's in your own mind and it's of your own making. So get out of your own way. Okay? All right. Let me introduce Adele . She has been a stay at home mom and a homeschooling mom too, so she's super busy with her children and frankly she was kind of losing her mind a little bit. She felt like she didn't have a creative release. She didn't have an outlet. And I don't know about you, but I can relate to that completely because when I'm not creating, when I am not designing houses, when I'm not creating in my business, my anxiety level definitely goes up. I get antsy, I'm agitated, I'm just grumpy. So I know that I need to be creating in order to be centered. And Adele definitely knew that as well. All right, so I'm not gonna say anymore. Let's just get into this conversation.

When I started homeschooling my kids, I feel like aye don't have anything for myself. Like I need a creativity outlet basically. So I, I spend practically like 24 hours in a day with my kids, seven days out of a week. I didn't get a break. So I thought to myself, what can I do? Um, just to make myself feel useful and just to feel, you know, like to feel like a woman. Yeah. So I started doing that because I have a set of vendors. I have, I have my team, I have my crew who, or good vendors of my rental properties. So I thought, you know what a buy and hold is great, but I want to make cashflow. I want to have, not only from the monthly rental, but more like the big, the big bucks. So the big chunks. Yup . Absolutely. Yeah. So I started doing that and I , um, I moved out from, myneighborhood. So I live in this area of, so Cal is called inland empire and I moved salad to LA County, which is crazy. Mmm. And I stayed there, but for my first flip, I still went back to my neighborhood, which I feel very comfortable. I know the neighborhood there. I know the price, I know the market behavior, so I know the style that they like. So I stick with that area for my first one. And um, I'm glad I did that because the price is in LA County is like double from where I came from. So. Mmm . I just, I mean, I'm just glad that I stick with that. So because you had already had the buy and hold experience, obviously you're not scared to pull the trigger on buying a property. Right. That's , that's a big fear people have is actually pulling the trigger. That's right. Was there, did you have any fear? Mmm, not. Not that I was scared of, but my biggest take back was , um , my, my biggest fear was my husband actually. So my husband has been very supportive, but he likes collecting houses. He doesn't like the houses. I just have to convince him. So I show him the numbers and this is how we get into property too. So the first time when we, when we first bought our rental property, I had to convince him with the numbers. He's a very , um , he , he's, he's such a number guy and I, so the way to approach him is to show him that this is possible. Right? Yes. So, so what I did was I show him how much money we can make if we keep this property as rental and how much money we can. Yeah. If we flip it and he was kind of like, okay, I'll let you flip it if you can sell at this price. And we ended up selling it for the price. Oh, that's awesome. Unless I get this number, we're going to keep it forever used to house his coaches . I saw pictures. Okay. So was he hooked after that first one? Was he like, Oh yeah, we're totally doing this again. He's still on the edge of, he always thinks that I said that, um, you make money in real estate, you make money on the buy and you create wealth on the whole. So he still believes in that. And I firmly believe in buy and hold real estate. Um, I think it's a great vehicle to build your wealth, but I told him that I need a creativity outlet or else I'm going to go crazy with, with homeschooling the kids. So he loves me and he is my rock. He's supportive. That's awesome. Good, good. Okay, so let's get into the specifics on your first deal. When did you buy it? I bought it. So, the listening when on the market in December, 2018 actually I saw it doing Christmas. I visited the property on December 31st, they had a couple of offers . Um, they first one with the cash offer. Uh , but then the cash offer I didn't perform and I came in with a 30% down payment and they pick my Epic, my office. Got it. And we close on February 1st. Okay. we did the renovation for three months and then we went on the market on May 1st and we close on June 11. It was to close, close to closest about four months. The good thing was we got a cash offer and we closed in 11 days. That's awesome. That's awesome. Okay. So what was the purchase price? Which is price was four 18. Okay. I was less than than LA County. This is not LA County, San Bernardino County actually. So the area is , um, it's an older area and it is Becking up the baseball field, local high school. And the local high school has about 3,600 students. So it is a big high school. Oh my God. Yes. Yes. That was actually was my biggest fear. Okay. Coming in a property that is not in a great location. Yeah. So the property was priced for 18. I get $3,000 credit, so we close with about four, four 15. Okay. So do you want me to go with the numbers of the rehab? Yeah , definitely budgeted. I budget the , the rehab at 70,000 we can very close because I gave a very healthy buffer on that, but we ended up with 69 about 69, 500. So it's very, very close. That's awesome. Good for , yeah . Mmm . And then , um , financing was easy because we, Oh , we get a conventional loan at 4.25%. So we finance it for about five, four or five months. It's like 6,500. Okay. Um. and then we listed at five 99 and we sold it for five 95 cash. That's awesome. Yeah. So what was your profit? It's about, I did my numbers here. It's about 67, 67, 491. Cause that's like right where my first profit was and I was like, yeah, this is nice. Or whatever. It was like 60 something days. Yeah, that was worth it . As far as a three months work. Basically by the time I'm done with staging and I gave it to my agent that's said, I don't want to know what this, just give me, just give me the seller. That's it. The buyer and that's it. I don't want to know. Did you stage it yourself? No, I hired a stager and she gauges for HGTV. Yup . So, and her price is reasonable and her work is phenomenal. So you think that it helped you get your sales price? Yes, absolutely. So, um, the house, this property is actually located in on a neighborhood where everybody sells only like the highest price at that point was 400, about 470. So we listed at five 99. It was, everybody thought that I was crazy, but I have to hit that number because my husband won't let me sell otherwise. So we ended up listed it at five 99 knowing that we will have problem with, right ? Yes. Fortunately we have cash offer at five 95 sell it . But the good thing is the property in that neighborhood is around 16 to 1700 square feet. It's a development build in 1963. Um, but the owner of the property that I purchased of my project, he did an addition of about 700 square feet. So he can't sell it for more than that because he cannot sell it for what the comps in the area because of the property condition. But once I came in and I rehab it, I have um , I have the square footage to validate my price point. So we eventually have to uh , comp the property further out from the , uh , from the neighborhood. But yeah. But that's scary in a cash. Yes. That's scary. You came on, was it 120 grand above the comps? It's about if you four for the neighborhood. Yes it is. But if you put in your , if you put in the addition of the square footage, because non of the comps are above 2000 square feet, 300 square feet was 23, 23, 2,400 square feet. So that way we have to pull it. That was like a little bit gambling there because I know that I have to convince if I have a buyer who  will go with loan, then I have to pull, have to validate my price point by pulling up the comps further out . Right. But luckily again, we get a cash buyer who don't care about any of them. That's awesome. That's awesome. They obviously saw the value in the property or else they wouldn't matter . Did, were there any surprises of the renovation? I know you stayed under your budget. Yeah. Let's talk about surprises. Not really doing renovating. This area is hot, so we went to the market in may and doing the open house, the first open house. We just realized that the AC went out and yeah, so two o'clock, my agent calls me, um, the AC is out and it was like 85 85 in may, which is still okay. But I called my HVAC guy, he came around 5:00 PM and you know, like this is the beauty of having a vendor in your pocket. If you treat them well, they will prioritize your projects . So important. Those relationships are so important. Yes. So I call, so I call him around 2:00 PM and he came to the property at 5:00 PM. He couldn't find what's, what's the problem. So he came back the following day, which is on Sunday morning. So he worked on it and he figured it out. God , it cost me like $800 but you know, but it's just like you can't do anything. You have to go with the flow. You just gotta go with it. Yeah. Yeah. I had a local meetup here yesterday at the project that we just finished and there's no electricity because we had an electrical panel that's renovating houses. Like not to go with the flow. Yeah , it was sunny . Yeah. But fortunately too, the staging kind of blows up everybody's mind. So they just don't care. You know? They know they know the areas , but when they, when it came into the property, they have like maybe like the first 10 seconds of there attention is pen , which is like right now it's very short. But every room that they came, they just like, Ooh , because of the staging. So I will never, I will never sell a property. I am with 100% and when people ask me, well, what about price point is price point matter? It doesn't matter to me . I don't care if it's entry level of the basement. I will save the house. I just will absolutely. No way. No, people don't have the imagination, the TV all the time. And people watch issued email all the time and when they come to the open house, they expect to see something like that. You know , it's just the expectation . It's just the expectations. So you just have to give it to them. You've got to give buyers what they want and if you don't stage the house, people's eyes get bored. And so they're going to scan around and they're going to find all the little bitty things that you have to entertain their eyes with furniture. Yes, exactly. Okay . I mean that sounds like such a great first project. So of course you're going to do it again. Yeah. Actually actually we sold our slow flip about two months after about three months after. Um, yeah. And then one, it was a nicer profit, but it's also a different market, different price point. So this house was 418 we sold it for 500 9,595. And the second project was a little bit different. Um , we bought it at six 80. Mmm. And then we renovated, we put in about 160,000. We live in it for about nine months. And I knew that. And then I moved out to LA County because so something and we rented out and we get a good income from the rental. So it's self sustain for one year and then we sold it. But it is also, it's um, it's a different time frame too because it takes more, it takes more time to renovate it. And I thought, I'm going to be living in that house forever. I'm going to be buried in the backyard, but life takes me somewhere else and we just have to do, yeah. Yeah. Are you guys in a slope flip right now? Um, we are moving into our slow flip right now. Um , well we bought the property, so this year, so my plan the first time when, when I finished my first flip, I told my husband, you see I can do this right? So we can, we can, you can have your appreciation and whatever as a cash deal from the rental. Let me do my thing. The plan was to sell this in 2019 and my goal for 2020 is to sell for two foot four properties. So right now I have two in my pipeline. Um, both of them are in LA County. One of them is going to be a slow flip and the other one will be a quick flip. That's awesome. Where do you find them? Did I know you found your first one on the MLS? Did you find your property, you're not saying that's two on MLS. I love this conversation because you're telling me what everybody's doing. No, you're telling me that people can actually flip houses in Southern California. Yeah. Which many times people say it's impossible. I'm hearing that you're finding deals on the MLS and I can't tell you how many eye rolls I get when I tell them. You can at least be looking at MLS stuff and make offers that are justifiable. You never know what if you're not doing anything right, if you're not making any offers on anything, you're not going to get anything. I'm glad this is just such a great conversation. I think that's going to be really helpful for people because it's not as difficult. We complicate things in our heads. We think we make things more complicated and more difficult. We build them up in our minds so much that we just don't even do anything. Yeah. Yeah. That's cool. Anyways , there are so many ways to look at the ambulance differently. Um, I am such a boring person. I go on Redfin all the time and I analyze deals all day long. If you asked me what is the, what is my favorite part, if I can do it, I'll just do acquisition. I love analyzing deals and negotiating. I love how if a property is still on the market for 60, 90 days, I know I'm going to get it. So there are many ways that you can go on Redfin. On Zillow. I particularly, I used Redfin a lot, so I'm very familiar with the tools there. There's something called a , you can't, you can filter it like how many days on the market. So I did that all the time because you don't know. Some properties, they're great properties. They went into escrow and they fell and they fall out and once they fill out, nobody wants them. Nobody wants. It's scary. Yeah, that's right. All right. It is the scariest thing that can happen to you as a player. And it happens. Of course it happens. So when a property has been sitting on the market for a long, long time and you know, it is really a great time for you come in and negotiate, what does your seller want ? Why did escrow call it ? Why did it fall off the escrow? And then you can ask like , it's not always monetary thing. Like, we had a purchase where the seller just needs more time, right ? Because they're older couple and they need to move out of their property. And they've been living in the property for about 40 years. So we came in with a decent offer and we told them that we're going to take it live everything. We're going to take care of the trash. Like you don't have to just take it personal belongings, but I will take care of everything else and that's a great relief for them. Oh, for sure. That's right. That's right. And also like, you've always had a Cassius King. Um, yes. A lot of time Cassius King. But if you can come approach it, approach the seller with the mindset of helping them instead of I needed to get out as soon as possible. Exactly. It helps you a lot. Totally. You absolutely hit that for sure. I like, I cannot stress that enough. It's not about you. It really isn't. What can we do? What does the seller need? Because if we don't ask that question, we have no idea how to appeal to them. Yeah, that's right. Honestly, I think the majority of the time it's not about the money. It's not a lot of times here it's, are you going to tear down this house that's been in my family? Yes. Yes, yes. Because I don't want that. And I'm like, no, absolutely not. I don't do that. You just never know. And so asking the question and really trying to come up with a win-win. Absolutely. Um, what, okay. So did you act as the GC? Um no, because I'm busy with my kids, so I have my main contractor who does the majority of their remodeling. But I also have myself like my HVAC guy and like my electricians a landscaper. So I have my team of people that I use for my rental properties. Yes . But the majority of the remodeling is done by a contractor who was referred by my close friend. And we've been working together for a while before he started tapping into a bigger project, which is a flip was like the whole house renovation. So before he did edit a bathroom for me. He didn't have remodeling in my past projects. And then once I get into that comfortable level with, then , um, I trusted him to do like the big thing. So it doesn't happen overnight, even though it's a referral. Um, but I think it's good to vet your people and train your team to work to your standards because sometimes a lot of people, they're afraid of confrontation doesn't mean that when you have a GC that they're going to take it off everything for you. Your standard is different from them. So I found it very hard at the beginning to confront people, but I know that if I want to scale this and if I want to continue doing this, I have to tell them and I have to train my team. That's what you have to deliver it to me. So, I'm not afraid of confrontation. And I think being a woman, it is a , you know, it's, we read that line very carefully, you know, and I think it's good. I think it's good. It's one of the biggest lessons we have to learn as women. Honestly. How did he deal with confrontation? And it doesn't have to, it doesn't mean it's a big scary thing. It. I think what has to happen is you have to realize your worth and your beat. Be firm with your expectations and put a voice to it. It's okay because men aren't scared to let people know when they've messed up or when they're, you know, they're, they're not producing what, what is expected of them or whatever, and it's no big deal. But Oh my gosh, in our minds, we work it up to be this terrible conversation. We're going to have to have a pizza. And the other person's like, okay, cool. Thanks for letting me know. Yes, absolutely. Okay, so you found your contractor through a close friend. Do you know what they charge? Like what's their overhead? No, so we , we don't want to get that away. So we told them, um, I told him this is what I want and I usually very clear, I will come with a picture with a floor plan and this is the kind of finishing that I want. I described it to them that this is the child where they have to pick it up , um, and everything else. And then they're going to give me their price . So there's no whatever, whatever the price is. I usually, I know because they are my vendor too when I tell them, okay, you go to this cabinet of , uh , the store, I want this cabinet and I know how much they're going to charge me. And actually they will pick it up and pay my price and they going to charge me labor and contractor materials. Got it. So that's how we do it. Got it. And you, when you go into a project, do you already have all of the finishes in mind ? So you tell them upfront everything you already have it? Oh, I'll figure it out. Yes. Most, most of the time, yes. But there sometimes there's like a little tweak in the middle of the construction, but it's not going to be huge. It's not going to be huge. So if I said that I'm going to have open shelves, Kevin in the kitchen, then I'll stick with it. Probably I'll change the color of the cabinets depending on if they having a promotion or things like that. Like the towels. If I want to change the title, if I wanna change the look, probably I'll just change the color. Yes. In terms of the placement and amount of work that they have to do. It doesn't change a lot. Yeah. So really you're just changing things that don't affect them. Like you're not changing the scope necessarily. So you have a pretty good idea when you go into these houses, what you want to do with them. Keep in mind that I don't come in the cash. So I have that 30 days doing my, you know, the, my closing time to figure out and to come back to the property as many times as I want and bring my GC and told my GC this is what I want for the space. And we usually, we have enough time for him to come back to me, give me the quote. Um, so that's how I do it. And there are times where we close in short period of time, like 21 days on alone. And usually we don't have a lot of time to wiggle there. And the planning happens after we close, but when we have 30 days , uh , closing, usually I can do something during the closing time . Yeah. Yeah. It's so nice to have it all lined up and ready to go the day after closing. It's like, okay, here we go. Yep . Um, you mentioned that , um, what did you, what was your surprise? Oh, the HVAC, the HVAC going out during the, during the open house. Was there anything else, like any other renovation or budget surprises on that first one? Um , there was this thing, but it's just very much there. So, the house, like I said, for my first project, the addition of the house is on the backside of the property. Um, and the way they build it, I cannot put laminate there. I have to put tiles. Annette or what? Uh , it sips like the water when a little bit down. Yes, it is. It sits lower than , uh , the front house . So to go with tiles, but then, Oh, we found out that the flora was not even, Oh, it's not . Yeah . So we have , so my contractor had to level it up and uh , what happened was they cannot open the patio door and this patio door is opening inward instead of, I would worry , it's kinda like stuck. And the option was whether we have to go with the , um, like ordering a new door or we have to switch it to outward door , which , which will cost, you know, like somewhere and it's going to break the budget. I'm going to pass that 7,000 . So what we did was, I was like thinking, how can I do this without breaking the budget? And we decided to cut, we cut like a lending and we put like a Spanish tiles in it. Ah, awesome. Oh, this is such an awesome stuff. So like the Petit a yes, and a patio door as , as I'm opening inward and I put a lending there so it's kinda like lower than the rest of the house. And I put like a Dico tile Spanish tool . That's awesome. I love it. I love the cost of cost me language . Uh, probably 80 bucks. I love the problem solving, like figuring out, okay, how do we solve this problem? I don't love the problems. So I mean, come to California, everything is possible. So I want to talk to you about finding your deals on MLS. Do you think that because you, it sounds like you've watched the market for a while , good investing in buying Holts right? So you've been, you've been studying the market, you've been watching things. It sounds like you have a very grasp on different areas and neighborhoods and, and values. Is that right? Is that, do you think that's why, or that helps you get some of these deals off the MLS? You can see the value, whereas people who aren't really studying the area, they don't realize that it's , that there's value there. Mmm. Familiarity. Of course it helps. That's why I decided, even though I was living at the LA County during that time, I decided to do my first flip still in the Navy where I feel very comfortable with because I lived there for eight years. So yes, if you are familiar with the neighborhood and you're familiar with the style that the neighborhood likes, it helps you with the flip, but also you don't have to. When I said I watched the market doesn't mean that like I'm on it like a, you know, like a stock broker who has to sell every time. It's like two weeks. It's not like that. There's so many technologies available for us. You can set your, your alerts, right. And then there's something, and I like to do when I shop, I don't like looking at new properties I like, I like scale property. Yeah, absolutely. And when I saw them, I sorted them based on price per square footage. So there's a tool, there's a tool on one of the website. I don't know if it's okay for me to say that. Oh yeah, yes, yes. I prefer Redfin over like Zillow or Trulia or those, I think I trust Redfin way more. They're pulling directly from the MLS. I trust it way more. Yeah . For people who are wanting to watch the market and not necessarily invest in MLS access. I say Redfin's absolutely. The way to go. Yeah, there you go. So I usually I go on Redmond and I slurred . I take my neighborhood, I mean I picked my city and then I sorted of, I just punted my filter. I'm saying it has to be three plus bedrooms, 1800 plus square footage . Sometimes in a certain neighborhood I want it to be 2,500 plus and then I just find in my filter it will come back to you. It will come back to you. Yeah. So I'm used to technology. People always say that there's no deals out there. I mean there's , there are a lot of fields if you, if you can. Yes. I mean put the alert, use of technology, use your creativity and you'll find you'll find deals. There are definitely deals out there. I think it's more of the fear, honestly. Like if a deal was right in front of your face, would you pull the trigger? If you do, you wouldn't fail. Would you pull the trigger? That's it. Because there are absolutely deals and you know, everyone has to , has their own journey. They have to go through their own process of getting ready to really take this on and trusting themselves. It's, it comes down to trust and confidence. Like, do you trust and do you have confidence in yourself? And then what are you doing? I mean, if you don't start, you don't know whether you're going to make it or if you're going to fail that just do it. Right. It's not like we're down on that, but I get that it's scary for some people. Did you - I guess I think I know the answer to this, but looking back across the flip - was there anything you would do differently? I thought of this and I wanna I want to say that my first live was a great experience for me and I'm very grateful for them, but if there's something that I can change is coming in with the mindset of just not really mindset, during that time we don't know whether we want to flip it or we want to keep it as a hope . So there are a lot of design and decision making that was because of that. Like, yes, do we put in something that is tended proof or do we put something that is attractive to two dividers? Yes. So do we enhance the design or do we enhance the livability? Something that can end doers, you know, like 10 years, 15 years, something like that. So I think it will be a lot. Once you have the system and you have that clear path, clear goal for the property, I think it will be a lot easier. And I plan to, when I move forward, I plan to have that clear goals in mind. I will have plan B, but Mmm . If this is a play , then I'll design it. We'll have to make it sell at the top, right? Yeah. There's no skimping on the finishing. Yeah. So going in knowing exactly your exit strategy and having match ups, I mean, obviously we should have alternative strategies always. Yes. Yeah. Especially in the market where you have to carry a lots of mortgages. If, if you come in with hard money lender, you know that you're paying interest. What if your property doesn't sell any to have an exit strategy? Right. If you carry a conventional loan, even if you carry a conventional loan, if you want to, if you want to be able to qualify for more mortgages in the future, right. Your numbers cannot be on the red. Right. You have to know. You just have to know if something happened to this, probably. If I cannot tell it, then what is the plan B. yeah . And that's always a fear. That's a big fear. What if I can't sell it? What if it doesn't sell? Of course. Yeah. I can't stress enough how we're in a really, really, really good market to be a seller. Take advantage of that. Don't over do the renovation and get buyers what they want. I didn't. I meant to - you kind of touched on this a little bit more at the beginning, you guys got a conventional loan. Yes. And I assume, did you use your own cash for the renovation and carrying costs? Yes. And was that cash or was there a 401k? Was it just straight cash? I am very, like I said before, I'm a very boring person. I do cash. I do my own cash. And I'm saying this not because I want to say that, Oh, I'm so good or anything like that. No, it's not like that. But real estate is really, my husband works at a irregular regular job. I'm a stay head, I'm a stay at home mom . So real estate, when we first started out real estate, I just saw it as an extension of our savings. So this is the kind of money that we can invest. A lot of people told me that maybe I can grow a lot. I can run faster and bigger. I am currently right now, but this is the way I'm comfortable in doing my real estate. And I have made my peace with that knowing that. A lot of people told me that, "Oh, you're wasting opportunities by living all of your equities in your properties." But my end goal is not to Flint toss of houses, not to own a 500 apartment complexes. It's just not my goal. So you just have to know what is your goal at the end of the day. What makes you happy with your life and what gives you peace. So that's how I always carry out my real estate planning. And anytime if I have extra money and I feel ready for my next purchase, I'm going to throw in a significant down and renovation budget. So knowing that I will make it up during my retirement years, you know, it will, it will all, it will all come back to him . Yeah. I love that. It's not , I know it's not the strategy for everyone. Uh , and um , and I'm not saying that it's the best strategy for everyone, but it works. There you go. It works for you. Whatever gets you in the game and keeps you in the game, do it. I think it's, I think you touched on something that's really important and it's something that I have struggled with , um, a lot over my whole life is this whole notion of go big or go home, right ? You hear that all the time. And I was always very competitive growing up. I played sports competitively through college. I competition was my thing going big, right? Doing the best you can and, and you look around and it's, well, why aren't you flipping more houses? Why aren't you doing it this way? Why aren't you doing it that way? And I too had to come to peace with, I don't want to flip. My brother flips like 70 or 80 houses a year, zero like negative 100% devices . Did you have any desire? I don't want to do that. And it's totally okay. It is totally okay. Whatever brings you joy and works for you. But I think it's a real big struggle for people. I do. And you know, everyone has an opinion and , and especially people who aren't doing the thing right , they're not actually investing. Yeah . They have more opinion . I know it's ridiculous. And people listen to them and I'm like, no, look, yeah , the person isn't actually doing the thing. Or like Renee Brown says, you know, if they're not in New York , that's right. Get it. Like they don't get it . Do you like Renee Brown ? Yes. Yeah . Well I'm glad you know her . She is hilarious. I swear . Like she's my best friend. She doesn't know it. She's awesome. Gosh, she's so good. I think she says it's just like, Oh my gosh, yes, I can get through that. Netflix from that place. I just have to pause and just like , just have like side conversation . I just have to go deeper. Let's just talk about this. I totally, totally, totally have a watch party. He goes , watch it. That's awesome. So to wrap things up, this has been, first of all, this has been so great. I think that this is a really, I think it's just really beneficial for people to hear this conversation and I really appreciate you taking the time out and sharing this with me and sharing this . You know , the audience, I think they're going to get a lot of value out of it. Is there maybe something or are there a couple of things, pieces of advice that you would give people who are, they really want to do this so badly and for whatever reason they just, do you have any advice that you would give somebody who's just starting out wanting to start out? You just have to edit Kip , educating yourself. That's one thing because Mike , it keeps changing and Oh , you cannot just rely on whatever people tell to you, especially in those who are sitting on the sidelines doing . Because every market is very unique and you know what you are comfortable with. You know, you'll like it . And I think educating yourself is very important and knows what is your end goals at the end of the day. Like you said, you don't have to flip tops of houses. If you have the Knicks to do it, to do this , to do it. I mean, just do it, do it, the ones , and then you just decide if it's for you, then keep doing it. If it's not, I mean , switched your TV channel none one . Don't watch TV all the time. It's not the end of the day. I mean, if you don't, if you, if you don't make money out of your first Mmm . It's the valuable learning experience. Absolutely . Yeah . I think it's , do it. Just do it. That's the best. Educate yourself. Educate yourself and do it. I love it. I think that's the best advice. Educate yourself and do it. It's as simple as that. Really. Yeah . Adele, thank you so much. Yeah. I'm still hyped up. I mean, I think it's great. What you do is amazing too, because yeah, a lot of people, they haveideas, they have hopes and dreams, right? And you facilitate them, their dreams and their hopes of. I think it's just, and amazing things that you create this community where everybody's very supportive of each other and I think it's great. I appreciate that very much. I really do thank you for being active in the community and engaging because that's what makes the community great, really is people like you. So thank you. Thank you for taking the time today and thank you for, or being part of the group. Thank you. Awesome. All right . Bye.

I so loved that conversation and I know so many of you are going to get value from it and I just want to thank Adele one more time for sharing her story. Alright , you guys, if you're tired of making excuses and letting those objections stand in your way of chasing your house, slipping dreams, do yourself a huge favor and go to first flip done All right you guys. Until next time, go out there. Flip houses like a girl. Leave people and places better than you find them and make it a great day. Bye.