July 12, 2022

Creative Financing & Lessons Learned on Amy's First Flip

She joined our coaching program while on vacation, and returned hitting the ground running! 

I'm excited to share this episode with you that's a conversation I had with one of our FlipSisters, Amy, in Michigan.

One reason she wanted to chase this dream of hers: to be a better role model for her daughters and show that if she can do it so can they. Whatever their "it" may be.

Here's just some of this insightful conversation's topics:

  • The story of when her husband said to her, “I’ve never seen you so happy” 
  • How she has used creative financing to avoid using any cash out of their own pockets
  • The crazy issue she had with her very sharky (and very unethical) real estate agent, and how she handled it
  • Negotiating where the other person doesn't feel taken advantage of
  • Navigating her fear of failure and fear of sharing on social media
  •  The facade of lower price points being "safer"

...and so much more! You don't want to miss it!


1. Sick of sitting on the sideline watching other people do the thing you want to be doing? Are you FINALLY ready to do what it takes to flip your first house and want incredible step-by-step training and support to get you there faster? Click here to see if we may be a fit to work together.

2. Follow That Flip! Follow this 8-part video series as we flip a house! 

3. Our goal is to inspire 1,000 new women each month and we've been achieving it with help from loyal listeners like you! If you are getting value out of this podcast will you kindly leave us a rating and review and help us spread our message?

Debbie DeBerry | The Flipstress®
Leaving people and places better than we find them.



You're listening to the flip houses like a girl podcast where we educate, empower and celebrate everyday women who are facing their fears juggling family and business, embracing their awesomeness and wholeheartedly chasing their dream of flipping houses. Each episode delivers honest to goodness tools, tips and strategies you can implement today to get closer to your first or next successful house flip. Here's your spiky hair to breakfast taco loving host house flipping coach Debbie DeBerry!

Debbie: Oh, this conversation is so good. Hey, how's it going today? I hope you're having an easy one. And I'm really excited to share this conversation with you that I had with one of our flip sisters named Amy. She's in Michigan, and we touch on so much good stuff. So we're going to talk about her first few flips with us. And the moment her husband said to her, I've never seen you so happy. We're going to talk about how she wants to be a better role model for her daughters. So if she can do it, then obviously so can they. We talk about creative financing, and not using your own cash, but tapping into resources you may have and unlocking cash and money to invest. So you're not taking cash out of your pocket or your savings. We talked about a real weird, crazy, Sharky real estate agent and the situation that she had and how she handled it. Talk about negotiating and fear of failure, her fear of sharing on social media. And wow, I mean, we just this is a great conversation buckle up, hang tight, listen to the end. All right, let's go. We're actually just going to jump into our conversation and then it within a few seconds, she'll introduce herself. Okay. That's one of the biggest reasons why this space exists. First of all, whatever it is that you want, and what it however you want it to look, it absolutely can and can practice doing that with us. We're a safe space to do that. Because basically, basically what we're trying to do, yes, we are.

Amy: Absolutely, because there are so many different ways. I mean, that's the one thing I think I've learned over the last eight months is there are so many different avenues in real estate, you can make it look however you want. And it is different to everybody. And you just have to find what your what you want to do. And go ahead and do it. You know, don't be afraid to jump.

Debbie: Exactly, exactly. That's it. That's totally it. Oh my gosh. Well, all of that is a great preface for our conversation. Like I'm just I'm so I'm so excited to hear about you and your journey and a little bit of your background. So you flipped two or three now. So two

Amy: Two have been bought, renovated and sold. We are getting ready, probably in the next two weeks to list the third and we're working on the fourth. So we have two additional in the hopper right now that are actively being worked on.

Debbie: Okay, awesome. Was there one that stood out more in terms of like, challenges? Yeah, yeah.

Amy: Yes, definitely. In the one that turned out to be my first flip. I learned a ton. I mean, I feel like every little thing we could encounter we did, which was great, because now it set me up for things to look for going forward. When I look at new houses. I mean, it's amazing the eye you get once you've encountered a small issue, then you're immediately it's on your radar. And I think that's so helpful. So I originally started off so I started this program in July, and it was kind of on a whim but not necessarily because I think it was something I've always in the back of my mind wanted to do. I think a lot of us are like that, you know, you have your dream job. If you could do anything, what would it be? And I always thought, you know, flipping houses I don't want to be I always said to myself, I don't want to be a realtor. I got my real estate like whatever. I you know, I just would love to buy houses and either fix them up and rent them or you know, resell them and that was just something I always wanted to do. And I was having some challenges. I have twin daughters who are now eight you In one of my daughters was having some learning challenges really came to light through COVID. I think a lot came to light through COVID For a lot of people, whether it be your personal life, your family life, your profession, I think everybody kind of had a, an epiphany during that time. So spending a lot of time doing home learning really brought some challenges to light. And so what I ended up doing, I had been doing recruiting for for 20 years. So basically, like a headhunter for accounting and finance professionals. And it was a stressful job, you know, but I think a lot of jobs are stressful. But it was definitely didn't realize at the time how much stress it was putting on me and my family and me as a mom, you know, and it was changing who I was. And so I decided to take a leave of absence. And basically take some time off over the summer, spend some time with them do what do what we wanted to do. And so we ended up taking a vacation to Cancun. And right before we left, I came across your podcast, and I was like, wow, you know, there is a whole world out here of other women doing this, that don't have the skills themselves to go in and renovate the houses. But they can build a team and they can do it and they're successful. And I remember being on the airplane and like buying Wi Fi, so I could listen to more podcasts with people doing it because I was like, Oh, my God, there. We're in the pool. You know, my husband and I were the girls and like, hey, what do you think about me trying to flip a house? You know, he always knew I had interest in it, we had to have a couple short term vacation rentals. So real estate was nothing new to either of us. And the first thing he said to me is, yeah, I think you'd kill it. And like really, you know, so when I threw it out there, I mean, that could have gone any which way right? And I think had he said anything negative, I probably just would have shut it down. And he didn't, and it was just so amazing. And the whole vacation, we were talking about it strategizing, couldn't do it. And I signed up for the program actually during, during the vacation. So it was it was amazing.

Debbie: That is so that is so cool. I love it.

Amy: I even did my intro posts, like while I was you know, we were between pool swims, or whatever. So it was just, it was just so amazing and so enlightening. And it just opened up this whole new world. And so dove into the program, you know, got looking, the first house that I looked at, I put an offer in, it's actually the one we're getting to list right now are getting ready to list right now. But it got stuck in probate. So I was under contract on it, we got the offer. We got the offer accepted. And it turned out the owners of the house, there were a lot more owners than they knew about because somebody had passed away and left it and then that person passed away and left it and so it was stuck in probate. We didn't know what was going to happen. And so I was like, gosh, now I really want to do this. So I started going out. And by the way, I found that when on the MLS Okay. And what I did was I walked it and then I just kind of backed into my numbers and made a low offer and they accepted it right. So I think that's kind of the key. I kind of cheated the first three were all on the MLS but

Debbie: no, that's not you know, that's not cheating. Absolutely getting out the MLS the the problem is that so many beginners, the MLS isn't, it gets to be very frustrating for them, because so many beginners won't make quick decisions. And right, that's what we're trying to avoid. We're trying to avoid the frustration, right? So it's like, okay, if you're not going to be able to make quick decisions and put in offers quickly, then you've got to go off market because you're going to be eaten alive, you're going to get frustrated, you're going to quit so that less is like feeding frenzy, right? Like it's there. Unless, and wholesalers are the easiest ways. But you have to make quick decisions. So yeah,

Amy: you have to make quick decisions. That's absolutely it. And so I probably jumped pretty quick. I don't even think I was slowly through everything. But I knew that, you know, when I found it, it was a good deal. And I think I'm pretty similar to other people like a lot of us, you know, you always look at Redfin, or realtor.com. And when you're scrolling through houses, you see what it's listed for you see the type of work and you're like you back into it, gosh, if I could get it for this. That would make sense, right? And so knowing that I really wanted to do this while I was on my leave of absence, I decided to continue to look and I think I put an offer in on a house we went under contract but the foundation ended up meeting a lot more than what we had anticipated. aided with our budget, so we back I backed out of that one. And then came across this other one, which became my first flip. And it's raw, our OLS was on the street, it was on and learned a ton. So I had a realtor at the time, who was helping me. And in retrospect, you We've parted ways, but he was really good at showing me how easy it could be to do things and what in his mind, we would need to do to get it ready to sell. So I think he actually pushed me a little bit not pushed me, but gave me the confidence and the booth to say, We can do this, you know, we would just, we'd walk properties, and we would, you know, throw out this would be the cost for this, this would be the cost for that. And so put an offer in on that one. And after a little bit of a negotiation, we got it. We got it under contract. And so I closed on that one, which will, you know, became my first flip, and September 3. So I think that was like the Friday before Labor Day weekend. Had a couple of different contractors lined up, you know, who had given the estimate, but nobody I was, you know, like, Oh, here's the GC and he's got his whole team, and this is what we're going to do. And the week before I was supposed to close on the house, you know, I'm getting a little butterflies, you know, okay, this is gonna be interesting. Now I got to actually make this thing happen, you know, game on, right. My husband called me and said, You're never gonna guess. So I got a call from our friend, Jim, who ended up being my key contractor, had been in construction for a good part of his life. He's done a lot of work for us in our house, rebuilt her deck. And he's just amazing. He knows how to do every day, the key contractor, he lost his job, and it was wondering if he could work with you

Debbie: gave me chills. And that amazing how the team lines up?

Amy: Yeah, I said, I mean, Greg and I had always like, whenever we've talked about, like, if we were ever do this, if we could ever have Jim, oh, my gosh, that would be amazing. And it just so happened that all all lined up. So Jim came out there the Tuesday I know, the Tuesday after I, you know, we closed and we kind of assessed what we were going to do. And we just started and he is my rock, like, he is amazing. And so he's working with me full time, he brought on another guy that he knows. And so it's kind of the three of us tackling everything, and I'm not as involved as I wasn't the first one. But it's really, it's really amazing. And I love seeing the transformation. I mean, it's amazing. He, he can visualize things, he's got great ideas, we, I think we work well together, we bounce things off of each other. But you know, he's, he's the person who's handling most everything, you know, we had some roof issues. So we had to pull in a roofer we had, you know, installed a new AC, so we had to have an electrician and an HVAC guy come out to pull permits and things like that. So, you know, we're, there's certain things that we definitely have to outsource, and definitely encountered some issues with those in the first flip. And I also think, in retrospect, just not paying close enough attention to the details, you know, as when I was walking the property, you know, all the significant drywall damage, you know, can you actually repair texture on a wall? Or do you need to re drywall it? You know, like, what is going to be more cost effective. door jams are all beat up? Why not just do prehung doors don't you can't use word filler to make them look better. Pull them out, do it the right way, you know, so things like that, that really, I think he and I are in sync. Now when we go into a house, it's like boom, boom, boom, you know, this is what we're gonna do. And this is how we're gonna do it. So

Debbie: yeah, that's a testament to team. Your team is so important. It's like, so like, as women, we want to wear all the hats, because we're told to Yep, but we have to let that go. We have to let go of the hats. Because first of all, the faster we bring on our team, the faster we're gonna get wherever it is, we're trying to go. Yes. And it's scary. And it's hard and you got to give up control. But you got to do it.

Amy: You've got to do it. It's the only way. It's absolutely the only way. And my heart goes out to people who are still struggling to find good people for their team, because that is crucial. And you can't do it without a great team you can

Debbie: write. But I also think that part of that struggle is not being clear about what it is you're looking for. And also not not approaching it as a I'm bringing you an opportunity, not begging the person to work right not begging them to choose you. No, no, no, no. Yeah, you're choosing them and it's It's a mindset shift that, right, it's hard for a lot of people to make, who haven't been in a role of managing really like Leon something. So it's a mindset shift that people have to make, and they have to make it on their own time, you know, we can push people all the way to the edge. But ultimately, they have to be the one to take that, that jump.

Amy: So true. And I feel like the mindset piece of this whole process and the conversion within myself that I've seen, my husband is just like, I've never seen you so happy, I have never seen you, you know. So you know, having fun and enjoying life. And we both realized how much the previous profession just weighed on me, it was a lot of negativity coming at me all day long. And I just don't think with my personality, that's something that is good for me. And I didn't like what I was doing. So you know, you've got that on top of it. But, you know, I feel like being a better role model for my girls, you know, them seeing me excited them helping me, you know, do lawn work at some of the properties, clean up, do whatever they can do. I think it's exciting. I mean, they can see that mom can do this, and they can do it. 200% 100%

Debbie: Yes. So let me ask you this. How did you so on your first deal, how did you finance what what was the purchase price?

Amy: 121,000. So, and I also have to say this like W make always a great point. The lower price points are not always the safer price points. I feel like there's a couple of different factors working in there. I mean, if you're looking at a 10% profit, you know, 10% of a smaller number is obviously a smaller number. When you go to sell this to, you know, you're running into and I know you're running into issues with comps everywhere, right? So it has to appraise for a certain amount in order to get financed. Sometimes at the lower price points. They don't have any extra cash to put in with it. Exactly. So it's really changed my mindset, the areas. So the fourth one where we've definitely shifted up, and I'm excited about that. But anyway, so the purchase price was 121.

Debbie: Okay, and then what was the renovation?

Amy: So my budget going into it was about 24. Now, I will say the scope of work definitely changed as we were going because probably like everybody else, I am hyper focused on what my comps are going to be right. You know, I'm looking on Redfin every day, seeing what houses are for sale, you know, the neighbors were awesome, too, because they were always chiming in. Did you see the one over there got into this, the, the postal lady would come by and say, Did you see that one over there? It just sold for this, you know, so. So, I know. So I feel like what we decided to do is, you know, some of the improvements that we weren't necessarily thinking that we would probably do like we put in a new breakfast bar, we decided to rebuild the deck outside just because it was not in the best condition. And so we made a conscious effort to go and do everything that we wanted to do. You know, we had intended on you know, putting in the new AC granite countertops, cabinets, new bathroom and things like that, but we did make some changes. So it ended up being about a $36,000 budget I think at the end, which for Reno is not that extensive. I'm learning you know, it seemed like it at the time, but it's not.

Debbie: Yeah, no, I don't think I've ever gotten away with a $36,000 renovation.

Amy: Yeah, no, absolutely. But we did have a couple of surprises you know, we've found something with the roof and the roof had to be repaired we had to you know, pull off some plywood they had to reshingle parts of it in retrospect we probably should have just done a new roof but the whole other issue with a contractor so we decided to you know, make do with what we needed to do and yeah, we ended up right around 36,000 for the total rental budget and we were happy with that I mean we did everything that we wanted to do. I did staging you know I'm a big proponent of staging everybody was telling me you don't need to in this market you don't need to but something intrinsically for me. I wanted to put my product out there and I wanted to show it in the best possible light and so I did and I'm very happy that I did

Debbie: exactly like those are your that's your portfolio portfolio. Do you want the house empty? Because I promise you pictures look way better with furniture. So yeah, I give me right you don't have to but it it always looks better and always feels better and you will get more because it's staged. I am a firm believer in that you just will I

Amy: totally agree with that, you know, I've developed a pretty good relationship with my stager here. And she's amazing. And she and I talk about that all the time. No, you don't technically have to. But do you want to? You know, so I think having a person like that on your team is key.

Debbie: Yeah. So okay, so to recap, your purchase price was 120 1000. You initially had 24k as the rehab budget, then it sounds like you started seeing some new comps come online, and you thought you know what I could I think I have some more room where I can actually do some more things here. Yeah. So you raised that to 36. And how long was your timeline for the renovation? How long did that take?

Amy: It took basically 12 weeks from the time they closed on the property to the day we listed it. So I want to say I closed September 3, and we listed at December 3, so it was exactly three months. I feel like that last minute stuff takes Oh my goodness. Yes. It

Debbie: really does like details. Yeah, it's hard. It's the longest. Yep.

Amy: You're so close. But yet so far. So you know what we we got it exactly the way we wanted it. And we were really pushing to sell it before Christmas. So that was kind of our goal was to get it out there as soon as we could. Otherwise we knew we're just going to hold on to it and do it after after the holiday. So we were pretty happy with when it went up. Okay,

Debbie: awesome. And when? Okay, so you put it on December 3. How quickly did you offer?

Amy: Yeah, so we did pretty we did pretty good. I want to say we had it, we had an offer locked down in like three days, we had multiple offers. The one thing though, I did have an issue with my realtor. So he was great at helping me find properties. But what I've come to realize, and I think this is kind of what sparked me to get my real estate license is that sometimes a realtor who is working with you to find investment properties is pretty aggressive. You know, not afraid to lowball not afraid, not afraid to put in a bunch of offers not not afraid to negotiate. But then on the flip side, when they're a selling agent, and this guy was young, he's in a 20. And so when you're a selling agent, I think it's a little bit different. So I wanted him and shame on me for not communicating this, I wanted him to shift his mindset. Now we're going to be selling something that I'm super excited about and very proud of. And I want to see how the world perceives it. I know that my buyers are probably either going to be a retired couple or first time homebuyers. And I want you to gently negotiate with them. I don't want a bulldog going after the other agents to get the best offer. And we had some issues he was he was pressuring people as soon as we got the offer the first night, the best offer, we got it, we listed it for 185. We got an offer for 195 with a 5k. Appraisal gap waived. waived inspection, which was great and close in 30 days. So it was a really good offer. However, what he was then doing with all the other showings that we had scheduled, he was going to those people and saying, we already have an offer 10k over ask if you're going to write you better write it quickly. And I don't like that. And so I had to have a conversation with him right away saying, I don't want to do that i Let's just let it play out. Let's keep it on the market for you know through the weekend and see what happens. I want to get people's genuine feedback. If they're interested. They'll write an offer but that's not up. And he kept going and it Yeah, it that wasn't the tipping point. But that definitely gave me a pit in my stomach because I don't want to be perceived as somebody who's out there trying to push to get the best offer I just that would turn me off as a buyer I do. I would not want even go see a house like that. I'd be like well forget it if there's already an offer to MK already asked. I'm not even going to you know, I'm not even going to bother. And I feel like that happened a little bit. I mean, regardless, we still got a good offer, but still it just didn't sit well with me.

Debbie: Yes, you know, I think that's such an important point to make. We can our business can look however we want it to look it can feel, however we want it to feel and ultimately, we're the decision maker on that. Right? We're loading the ship. We get to decide how it looks, how we show up how it feels how we feel You're in it. And you're, your body said no, this isn't this doesn't feel right to me this this, this doesn't feel in alignment with how I want my, my business to be. And kudos to you for recognizing that and basically shutting that down. Right like okay, yeah wrecking not only do I recognize it, but I'm listening to it and I'm acting accordingly. I'm not just going to ignore that feeling, because I should, I should gouge people I should, you know, have this cutthroat attitude, I should end up leaving a negotiation feeling like, Yep, I won, I squeezed the most I could out of them, which is disgusting, That's what so many women, in particular, in real estate investing here, that kind of messaging, like, you have to screw people, somebody has to lose. And that's why they're like, Well, I don't I want to flip houses. But I don't want to do it that way. And that's why I'm like, you don't have to do it that way. There is no choice. Yes, you don't have to do it that way. It can absolutely feel good to you. And it can feel good to the other person, like all parties can feel like they want. They can. Yeah,

Amy: absolutely. I mean, it should be a positive thing. You're selling a house to a person who wants the house. They're excited to move in, you're excited to hand it off. Because essentially what we did, it was for me and him it was our first project. And so we were so excited to see what the public thought of it and what the feedback was. And did we do a good job, we thought we did a good job. But did we. And it was really like, I felt like we both had a spring in our step after we realized, okay, it sold in three days, people loved it, the feedback was good. I still just had this pit in my stomach about how it was done. And so that started planting the seed of like, maybe I do, you know, my husband and Jim had always Ed just need to get your real estate license, if we're going to be doing this, you know, why not? You could just sell your own flips. Why not? You know, and so I think I always knew I probably would, at some point that just spurred me to do it. And then we had some issues. So we the house didn't appraise for, you know, so that was what I brought that up earlier, the house didn't appraise for what we thought it was going to be it came in super low, it came in at like 176, which didn't, ya know, didn't even come in close. And I mean, looking at the comps. But you know, in retrospect, I had asked my realtor, are you going to go meet? You know, we knew when the appraisal was going to be, are you going to go meet the appraiser? Or are you going to go give them some comps? His response to me was, oh, you can't do that. That's illegal.

Debbie: No 

Amy: it's not no. So he did nothing to prep the appraiser for what appraiser? What comps we were using to get our number or asking price for so I feel like he dropped the ball there. So when we got the appraisal back, we had a 5k appraisal gap, which is nothing when your appraisal is $19,000 low. So we started to try to fight it. And the buyer was on board with that too, because he really wanted to be able to get the house as well. But after he submitted like the reappraisal package, I feel like something with my realtor definitely changed. He wasn't giving me updates. I kept calling him like, okay, are we going to just then have to relist is this deal going to happen? Or is it not? And I felt like he was really just trying to let things go. And now I kind of know why. So it just seemed to add, I'm like, so you mean, you haven't heard from the buyer's agents all you know, what? Are you sure? You know, like, No, I haven't heard anything from him. So I picked up the phone and call the buyer's agent. I'm like, you know, something just does not seem right. And he was telling, you know, he's like, he didn't you know, your agent didn't give you the update. I emailed him yesterday, he responded to the email, he responded all these people. So it was like 36 hours later, he hadn't we hadn't heard anything, supposedly. So I get a text from my realtor saying, hey, you know, what do you think your bottom line would be if this deal goes south, and we have to relist and I said, Well, you know, honestly, probably 190 And I was really hoping for the 195 But you know, probably 190 text me back and says, Well, I think my girlfriend and I might offer to buy it. We could do 190 No inspection, but we wouldn't be able to do an appraisal gap and we'll just write an offer and we could just get this thing done. Number one, I'm under contract with somebody else. Oh my god or two you just asked me my bottom line so that you could make me an offer? No.

Debbie: this was your realtor.

Amy: This was my realtor. Now he and his girlfriend had seen the house. She's really liked it she, you know, commented, oh my gosh, you guys did a great job, we are going to be looking for a house to move into an area. Wow. You know, maybe jokingly, over the last couple of months, he had made some comments. But I really feel like he was trying to get the deal to go south, knowing that there was probably going to be an issue with financing with the buyer that we had anyhow, to get me to come now. Wow, I was flabbergasted.

Debbie: Yeah, even now like I am in shock

Amy: I know I. Yeah, I'm incredibly unethical. How unethical. So I had started taking the real estate class by this anyway. And I'm going through dual agency. So I even had a conversation with him. And I said, you know, how, you know, I'm kind of baiting him like, really, you know, I call them at that point. You haven't heard from a buyer's agent? That's weird, because we're supposed to close to there are contracts, you know, expires today, we've got to either give them more time for the appraisal, or you know what, you know, that's really weird. And again, reiterate it. I haven't heard anything when I had just gotten off the phone with a buyer's agent, knowing that he had given him an update, and that my agent wasn't giving it to me. You can't make this stuff up, right? It's just ludicrous. So we, I then worked directly with the buyer's agent. I was like, You know what, this is not. It's not ethical twice. So when I was on the phone with my agent, I'll go back to that with dual agency, I just said, Well, how would that work, you can't represent yourself and represent me as a seller that I don't, I'm not comfortable with that. Well, then I could just have my girlfriend, get the mortgage, and then she's buying it and I could represent her and you as a seller, I'd knocked my commission down to 5% instead of a 6%. He's like, so you'll actually walk away with more because you don't have to pay as much commission was like, wow, you know, okay, you know, when your colors right,

Debbie: right. Wow.

Amy: dig that hole a little deeper. So I haven't. Yeah, if it was not good. So what ended up happening is broker got involved, I didn't feel comfortable with that. So I was working directly with a buyer's agent. And that buyer's broker agents broker was involved as well. And the appraisal did finally come back at 185. After it was reappraised which is still 10k different than what we had agreed upon. And although we had a 5k appraisal gap, since my agent, let the contract lapse wasn't about he was not about to hold the buyer to the appraisal gap. It got really sticky. They got really sticky. Both of us almost walked away, but both brokers stepped in and gave gave a reduction in their commission to make the deal work. It was it was just it was not a good situation. And I think from a legal perspective, based on what he did, I think they were really concerned which I don't blame them. I mean, it's very unethical, and you can't, there was a lot of things and a lot of he put it all in text message. So it wasn't even like a he said, she said I have had the proof, you know, so it was it was just not good.

Debbie: Wow. Again, we get to choose, right, we get to choose who you work with. And you learned you learned some people you don't.

Amy: Yeah, yeah, absolutely. And you know, and now I know is, like I said, that spurred me to get my real estate license because I wasn't so motivated. And until I started dealing with somebody that I didn't want to have represent me. And so now, you know, I'm going to be listing my first house myself. And I get to put the foot forward that I want to put forward and I can do it in the way that I want to do it. And so it did teach me a lot, you know, tough lessons learned. But, you know, you've you've got to keep your eyes open to even though you do have a relationship with someone and you've built some trust. Don't turn a blind eye if there are warning signs, and there were some warning signs I should have probably listened to in my gut even before we got to the offer stage on the sale of that first house. No, but in hindsight, that's okay. You know, that's okay.

Debbie: Part of it. Right part of it. Part of it. The one of the biggest parts is of this whole journey is learning to trust ourselves. But trust that gut, right, like, here's the gut and trust it and know that okay, yep, I can listen to that. And it's okay. I'm gonna do that I'm gonna listen to Yeah.

Amy: Right. And if there is something eating at you listen to that, because there's probably a little bit more where that comes from, and I think it's given me a lot of knowledge and in through that process, I built some even greater relationships and I've met some amazing Women in this group in Michigan and outside of Michigan, who have given me a lot of guidance, and I've formed some relationships based on that. And it's amazing. It's amazing what can grow out of some not so great situation sometimes.

Debbie: Yes, totally. I love it. I love it. Okay, so what? What did your profit end up being on your first one?

Amy: So it was just shy of 20,000. So I want to say it was like 19. For Yeah, so overall, not so bad. Right came out of it right? Ending asking or sales price on record was 188. So it doesn't look like that would have been the profit. But because there was some commission concessions based, you know, from the brokerage profit ended up being you know, what I thought it would be going into that offer situation, so it worked out, okay. So all in all, with everything we learned on it, about the house about the process of a renovation about the order of things, the you know, how you should do things within the house to make sure that you're not, you know, the proper order, so to speak. We learned a ton, it was amazing. It was absolutely amazing that we were even able to walk away with profit. So I was really happy about

Debbie: Yes. Oh, my gosh, totally. I love it. That's great. That really is. Okay. What we didn't talk about is how did you finance the purchase price and the renovations.

Amy: So what I ended up doing, my intention was to use a HELOC on our primary residence because we have some equity in this house. And I actually started the process. Right when I began the program, essentially, when I started looking for houses, but the process took a long time we went through our local credit union, and there was just no sense of urgency. So in addition to that, what I also was able to do, we have some investments with Morgan Stanley, I guess, an investment brokerage. And they gave us a line of credit against our investments for an interest rate, like 3%, which is also similar to what a HELOC could be, and we have a line of credit with them as well. So I was able to use both and finance it that way, which was amazing. I know a lot of people don't have that option. But just I called my I call our finance guy and I was explaining what I was doing. He's like, Oh my gosh, it's great. I'm, you know, I think I'm I quit my job. And he was like, Hey, have you ever thought about a line of credit with us? Because I was starting to say like, what are some other options, because now I'm finding properties. And it looks like it's going to take longer, longer to get that HELOC. I think if you just look, you know, there are a lot of creative ways to find finance things, you know, you don't have to use your own money. You don't have to use your own money. I wouldn't have known and I wouldn't have been able to jump, I would have had to wait, you know, probably another month and a half to get anything off the ground. And so yeah, it's unbelievable when you just start calling around. Yeah, if you're not afraid to pick up the phone and just ask them questions. You'd be surprised about what opportunities are out there and don't have to use your own money, you don't have to. So on the fourth one, I actually did use a hard money lender because I purchased it before I had sold any of the houses. And so it happened a little fast. But I put in a lowball offer on a wholesale deal. And it was a really, it's, I'm really excited about it. And you know what the timing worked. And I said, You know what, let's just do it. And it still worked with the hard money lender. So yeah, I think if you can just know what your options are. And I love the way the program is set up. Because you before you start doing that you kind of already know what your options are and made those calls prior to identifying property. So I knew, you know, I don't have to use my own money. And I think that's the biggest misconception. Well, I don't have any money to get started. You don't have to have any money. I mean, it'd be nice if you had a little bit but you don't have to have you don't have to use any of your own money.

Debbie: Exactly. Exactly. I'm glad you're saying it. You know, I say it and people are like no, I don't believe that. And it's like no, we really don't. It's a unique industry. We're in real estate, right? Like there is this asset that you can go see touch and feel. And you there are lots of different ways that you can finance it. And it's it's it's really, I don't know another I don't know another industry that offers that.

Amy: I don't either Debbie. And I feel like you know, before, and I truly say this kind of ingest, but not really. There's this whole other world that I never knew existed, you know, with lenders, hard money lenders, private money lenders, wholesalers, all these inner workings within real estate investment that help it go faster and more smoothly and give you opportunities to make money. There's so many different ways. There are no limitations. Your only limitations are yourself. It's just unbelievable. It really is.

Debbie: Yeah, you're exactly right. You're exactly right. Okay. So that was your first flip. And now you're on. So you bought you have four properties, right? Well, you just closed you closed on the one. So you have three properties right now, right?

Amy: I actually closed on the sale of number two is well,

Debbie: that's right. Okay. I can totally see that post. Okay. How was that? What were the numbers like on the second one.

Amy: So the second one, we purchased it, technically the sales price was 115. But I gave 2500 towards selling costs from the seller or so it was 117 Five, essentially. That one, in retrospect, I should have an iPhone that went on the MLS. It was a great house, it was for sale by some siblings. It was their childhood home, their mother had passed away. And it was just getting to be too much for them. You know, the backyard was way overgrown. There was a lot that just needed some attention. And so through the inspection, we realized there was mold in the attic. Not a big deal you can get that remediated but the roof should be replaced. The mold was due to lack of ventilation in the roof. And so I should have gone back to the seller's to renegotiate in the agent I had didn't want to do that. The same agent that I had those issues with so should have done that I should have done that. Because the profit because I chose to do the new roof and put more money into it than I thought I was going to need to the profit wasn't as great. So it was a 117. Five, I want to say the rental budget going into it was about 30. The rental budget actually ended up being like 35, five. So profit overall was right about just under 16. So like 15,007 60 Okay, not bad. Not bad at all, but still a profit. Yeah. Still a profit. And we're super proud of the house. It was amazing. Transformation my guys did. Oh my gosh, they did an amazing job on it. It was great. We sold it to a first time homebuyer in his new wife. So it was great. You know, we were really happy with the way it turned out. We did some extras to it, you know, we put a new front porch on it, we tore down a shed in the back, we put up a new shed things we probably didn't have to do. But I don't want to cut corners. You know, I want to do it the way I want to do it. And I don't want to feel like maybe I should have done this. But I was just looking to save a buck. So you know you live in learn in retrospect, like I said, I should have gone back to the sellers and maybe taken a little off the price because of the roof. But it was my choice to redo it. So I can live with that.

Debbie: Okay, got it. Yeah, hey, you made a profit. That's awesome. That's number two. And then number three, and four you're currently working on?

Amy: Yes, number three. And number four. Number three is actually the one that came out of probate while we were working on number one, you know, got a miraculous call from title saying you're never gonna believe this. You're able to clear title. 

Debbie: Well, how did they How long did they work on that?

Amy: Two and a half months. Okay. It was a long time. It was a long time. But the deal, you know, I could have walked. I mean, there was no obligation for me to stay in it. But the deal still made sense. So I wanted to and so I did and I'm glad I did because I it's a nice house. We ended up doing more to it. I feel like I keep getting any scenarios. It probably didn't need a new roof. This could have used a roof didn't absolutely need a roof. We decided to put a new roof on the house and the garage and a new H vac system. So we were going to add an AC unit on that one. But we decided to do furnace and AC unit. So I'm excited the way it's turned out. though. I think it's a wonderful neighborhood. The neighbors are great. And I think it's gonna be a good home either for a retired couple or potentially first time homebuyers.

Debbie: All right, so when you joined, you had just did you quit your job or were you doing like a sabbatical? Because you said you were going to take the summer off?

Amy: Yeah, so I did a leave of absence, right? technically supposed to go back like October 1. And honestly, as it started getting closer and closer, I was like, like, I don't think my husband, I don't think I can do that I just, you know, I'm starting to feel the stress of if I have to go back how it's gonna be. And so we both agreed, you know what, just do this, just go ahead and give notice and I plan on going back and maybe giving it a shot. And just in my heart as I got closer, I couldn't do it. And you know, it was a great company, they were great to me, I was there for 20 years, I had a lot of flexibility when I was pregnant with the twins. And when my mom passed prior to that, it gave me a ton of flexibility. And they were always really good to me. So it was hard. I think that's what kept me there for so long. But I knew in my heart, I couldn't do that anymore. And so they were they were very happy for me not really surprised. I think after somebody takes a leave of absence to take some time. It's probably 5050 If they're coming back. So I did end up not going back and I I quit. 

Debbie: alright, so you did that you you took a leave of absence. Shortly thereafter, you're on? You're on a on vacation with your family in Mexico, and you joined the program. And yeah, I want to talk about what were your biggest fears going into your first flip

Amy: my biggest fears, probably two and one I still wrestle with big time. Fear of failure, right? I don't want to fail, I don't want to do this. When I started the process, I talked to some my sister, you know, very, very close to my sister. And I kind of threw it out there what I was thinking, and she was like, Oh my gosh, you're gonna you're gonna do so great. This is awesome. I had my husband support. And I didn't want to fail. Like, what happens if I can't do this? Or if it doesn't work? What are they going to think? And so I think fear of failure, not because of me, because I can handle it. What does everybody else gonna think. And then the other which I still wrestle with? I'm really good at doing, I can get out there and do I don't like talking about what I'm doing. And so sharing on social media is I still haven't shared my business page on my social media. I just shared it with our group. I struggle with that so much. I have a no problem going out there doing I can pick up the phone, I can talk to anybody. But putting something out there as in like, tada, I really struggle with. But I have to. So I've built my website I am I am going forward with my business, I am marketing, which was one of my biggest fears. And I've been wrestling with it. You know, the girls in the group that know me well know, I'm like, you gotta hold me accountable. I've got to get out and do this. And so I am but that that is my biggest thing. I yeah, it's just that's really hard. For me. It's it's I'm not a social media person. I just I don't share a lot about myself. I did when the girls were little. Yeah, because I felt I had something to share. But other than that, I haven't. So that that has been the biggest challenge

Debbie: Yeah. So I feel the same way. And I really do have to shift that to be. But if I if people don't know what I do, then people don't get to benefit from from working with me because I know that I'm going to treat that person like, right if people send a seller to me who's in a tough situation. I know, I'm the best person that they can talk to around here because I'm not trying to take advantage of them. Yep. Right. Like I really am looking out for them. And so that definitely helps it helps to put the focus on okay, how can I do this in a way of service, right, focus on them focus on focus on the outcome, which is serving other people. And it makes it easier to stomach when when it's when it's not about us. And trust me when I say that. Of all things you could be talking about that you're doing how slipping people are obsessed with the transformation, right? Like they want to talk about hero. They want to hear about it talk about it. They're like oh my god, that's so cool. I mean of any business you're in it's probably one of the best ones you could be in because people are like, Oh my gosh, that's so cool. Just seeing transformations. People love it.

Amy: You know that's a such a good point. And I never thought about it that way. i You're absolutely right. I could be talking about something so mundane that people try coop, why? No, you're right. You're absolutely right about that is that I love that because I never really thought about it. They will. And I will say, I noticed that you've recently started sharing in our group about your stuff going on. Yeah. And maybe it's hard for you as well.

Debbie: Oh, absolutely. All of all, everything that everybody in the group struggles with. I do too. Because I do. I, I don't like attention. Right weird place to be in I but I do not like attention. I like to lift up other people. And I like to spotlight people. Yeah, but I don't want the spotlight on me. I don't need the spotlight on me. Because it's not about me, it really isn't. It's about the transformation that's happening with these women like it. That's what it's about. And like, they're transforming, y'all are transforming. And y'all are transforming houses. It's like this most amazing thing. And that's what I love to think about and focus on.

Amy: You're such a giver, you are such a giver. And it's such a awesome perspective. I mean, the fact that that's how you operate. I mean, it just, it warms all of our hearts. And we know that you know, and I, you're right, we all do struggle with that. And maybe that's a perspective, I do want to be able to help people, I feel like, I am going to be able to help people because I think that's what this is all about. Even other investors, I would love to, you know, I built some relationships with great investors around because I think it's a I love the, the gratitude and the, you know, coming from a place of abundance versus scarcity, because I, I just think that that perspective in life is so much happier and healthier, and to be able to share it with other people makes it all worth worthwhile. Right?

Debbie: 100% Yes. Yep. It's, it doesn't have to be. It's, it's kind of in line with what I was talking about earlier, how it doesn't have to feel gross, it doesn't have to feel icky. It there doesn't have to be a winner and a loser. And there is plenty to go around. plenty to go around. There is yeah, there there is. And when we when we realize that, and really, like really, really get that. It I feel like it just it changes the whole energy of how we show up and how we think about our business without it having to be if I get this deal, that means somebody else doesn't get this deal. And no, it means there's another deal out there. Like there's always going to be more and more. Exactly, yeah, it's it's, it's definitely a it's not just about flipping houses.

Amy: No, oh my gosh, the transformation within me as a wife and a mom has just been in a person and just living my life happy. You know, I don't wake up in the morning, go, gosh, what those are more days or whatever the case may be. I love it. I mean, I'm working late. I'll do things on weekends. I mean, because I love it. I love what I do. And I feel like if other people can find that passion, whatever that is, yeah, it gives your perspective. Such a different outlook and perspective on life. That is just eye opening and wonderful versus you know, that feeling of Sunday night before you come home from a vacation or something like, oh, I have to go back to the grind. I don't feel like that because I love everything about what I'm doing and that yeah, I thank you so much for creating a group that has that whole abundance mindset. It's let's help each other let's lift each other up. Because there we can all do this.

Debbie: Yes, we can all do this. We can be in the same city and do this successfully. Like we there. There's plenty to go around. And like thank you for your kind words. I'm glad you showed up to the party. I really am. I'm glad awesome. keeps showing up to the party. We're really fortunate in that the space is so good. It is it really is about abundance and not about well if she's in my city. I'm competing against her. I have never know. I've never heard anybody say that in our group like that would not know it's more like cool. Let's get together. share resources, right.

Amy: I'll never forget that when I did my intro post. I there was one gal who I've been become very close with and she brought on my post but great, so excited. As soon as you're ready. I'll share my contractors. I mean, it was like, Wow, what an amazing post. I mean, I remember that to this day. Who was that? Stephanie? Of course. Yeah. Oh my gosh, she's amazing. Exactly. And I run minded her that like a month ago? And she's like I did and like, Yes, you did. And it's amazing, because it's that mindset of, we can all do this together, you know, we're, let's help each other out. And there is more than enough for everybody. I just met other investors, you know, people, one came into the house we're working on, he bought the house kitty corner across the street, and he was like, Hey, are you an investor to unlock the property and just talking about things and sharing ideas? I think there's so many other people out there that, you know, this world can be this country is just the opportunity that we have, if you just want to work for it is unbelievable. And that's what I try to teach my girls to like, you can do anything you want. Yeah, you just have to work for it. Yeah.

Debbie: Right. You've got to put the effort in. And effort means getting uncomfortable, right? Yes, that's the hardest part. The hardest part isn't like, the steps aren't hard. It's getting out of your comfort zone. That's hard. It is so

Amy: hard. And I I'm so glad just from this conversation that you put that speed with me about don't look like sharing on social media. It doesn't have to be narcissistic, it can be coming from a place of helping other people sharing so that you can help other people. And that's when I have to remind myself every day Yeah, to keep myself motivated to do that. Because I do even within the group, I think maybe sharing some of my struggles will help other people understand that they're not alone, either.

Debbie: Oh, my gosh, yes, absolutely. That that's the group is so important. For so many reasons. But one of the reasons being one of the big reasons being our stories and our experiences, normalize them for people, right. So if we're not talking about dealing with, you know, somebody who do that maybe a contractor stops showing up, maybe we chose the wrong contractor and they stopped showing up, or whatever the challenge is, and overcoming it. If we're not talking about that, then somebody hits a challenge. And they think, Oh, God, I'm the only one What am I doing wrong? What's wrong with me? Why like, right, instead of, oh, that's just business. And let's figure out how to move forward from

Amy: so true. I remember. Yeah, I remember a gal sharing, you know, that she's struggled over the last couple of months. And we, you know, without sharing that we never would have known. And I think it's just so helpful that it opened up for a lot of people being able to say, wow, I've been feeling that way too. It is overwhelming. And, you know, I think I'm gonna challenge myself to do a little bit more of that at least once a week. And I think hopefully, it can help other people. Get me out of my comfort zone. I gotta get uncomfortable.

Debbie: ou got to get uncomfortable. You got to do it at least once a week. You got to do it. Yeah. Exactly. Gosh, I was so looking forward to this call. And I'm so glad that we got to connect. And I'm sorry that it ran over. No,

Amy: it's wonderful. I love it. I love it. No, are you kidding me? I've been looking forward to this conversation for so long. I can't tell you the impact that you've made on me, my family, my whole I mean, I know you've wanted to do this. And I just want you to know, your mom would be so proud. Number one, but you have touched so many people. And what you do is so important to so many people keep going you've got you know you you have the gift, you definitely have the gift.

Debbie: That means a lot to me. It really does. Because I'm not immune to just like I said earlier, like everything that y'all anybody struggles with, I struggle with like I am not like some weirdo superhuman. No, I am deep in the struggle. I'm just willing to talk about it. Like that's the that's really the difference. I love to talk about it. Yeah. Well, Amy, thank you so much. I have thoroughly enjoyed this. I'm grateful for your time and for your contributions in the group. Really, like thank you for showing up. And thank you for being an encourager and just engaging in the group because it makes it that much better.

Amy: Oh, you are very welcome. Thank you. I, you know, thankful for you every day and just so excited to be part of this and to see everybody's journey and be honest with them. I think that's the exciting part.

Debbie: Yes. It's awesome. I agree. It's so great. Well, thank you again. Thank you. And of course, I'll see you in the group be in the group. All right,

What did I tell you? Right? I mean, are you kidding me? Ah, such an awesome conversation. Thank you again, Amy for hanging out with me. All right. So if you're still sitting on the sideline, not doing the thing. because you're scared, or you think, Gosh, I don't want to be a shark, I don't want to be a jerk. Guess what? You don't have to be a shark or a jerk. This business can look however you want it to look, and it can feel however you want it to feel. And we can help you do that. We can help you create a business you absolutely love. Go to her first flip.com and schedule a call with our team will walk you through exactly what we do, how we help women accomplish this big goal, this big dream that most of them have had for years, if not decades. So again, go to her first flip.com and schedule a call with us. All right, y'all. Until next time, go out there flip houses like a girl. Leave people in places better than you find them and chase what lights you up!