Private Money & MLS Deals Fuel Her House Flipping Business with Heather Banks

You're listening to the flip houses like a girl podcast where we educate, empower and celebrate everyday women who are facing their fears, juggling family and business, embracing their awesomeness and wholeheartedly ceasing their dream of flipping houses. Each episode delivers honest to goodness tools, tips and strategies you can implement today to get closer to your first or next successful house flip. Here's your spiky hair to breakfast, taco loving host house flipping coats . Debbie Dabiri .

Hey you guys, it's Debbie here and I hope that whatever you're up to today, you're having an easy one man. The last couple of weeks I feel like I've just been kind of dragging along and I had some blood work done recently and realize now why it feels like I've been dragging along and that's because my iron is incredibly low. We're talking single digit low, so obviously I'm taking some supplements and handling all of that business and hope to feel back in my a game range because I'm feeling more like CD level and that doesn't feel awesome. Why the heck are you sharing this with me, Debbie? Well, it's do encourage you to go get checked out. If you're not feeling great, go to the doctor and handle what's going on with your body. All right . We don't have to go through our life feeling crappy all the time. Okay, enough of that. Now let's get into today's episode, but first of course I want to do a listener shout out because if you take the time to share some feedback with me, I got to give you a shout out. So this review is from Lauren Oh four Oh four nine she says, Debbie does a great job of laying out the framework to get started and then talks about all the nuances of what it takes to be successful. I'm working on my first flip and Debbie is giving me so much confidence to get it done. Thank you, Debbie. Well, thank you, Lauren. Oh four Oh four Oh nine for taking the time to leave the rating and review. I appreciate you taking time out of your busy day to let me know that what I'm doing actually matters, so I appreciate that. And also don't forget the more ratings and reviews, the more visibility your show gets. So if you're getting some value out of this podcast, will you please do me a favor and help us reach more like-minded women like you by leaving us a rating and a review. All right . Enough of the housekeeping. All right , I'm excited to share this conversation with you that I had with banks. She also flips houses here in Austin, Texas. And the cool part about it, actually there are a couple of cool parts. So a couple of reasons why I really wanted to have this conversation with her are one, guess what she finds her deals on the MLS. Yeah, there's another one. Okay, so stop with the excuses. All right . And number two is she manages her projects a little bit differently than I do. So I like to get one main crew that can do most of the work and she pieces it out. So it's really cool that there are multiple ways that you can make this business work. And then lastly, she uses private money to fund her flips. So she has a private money partner and they split their profits 50 50. He brings the money and she manages the project. All right. Yes, you guys, people exist out there that just want to invest in projects and want nothing to do with the actual project and they make a fantastic return. Okay. Yes, they exist. Yes, there are houses on the MLS and yes, you can do this business in multiple ways. All right, let's get into this conversation. It's going to sound like we're kind of starting halfway through and that's only because initially there was a bad connection and we had to work through that a little bit. So, okay. We're starting the conversation talking about the current projects that she's working on. Okay. All right. Enjoy. Are your flips that you're doing right now, are they for other people or are there y'alls personal investments

there? It's worse with an investor kind of as a partner. So , um, they are for us and for the investor that we work with, so it's like a JV kind of thing, violent investors. So I consider it for us, but I'm with accountability to another person.

Yeah, I gotcha. So are you guys, how do you guys structure it? Is it like a 50, 50 split or does it vary?

No, it doesn't vary. It's a straight forward, very simple 50, 50 split.

Yeah. And he, he or she provides all the financing is do they provide all the financing for the purchase and the renovations or,

yeah , he provides all of the financing for the purchase and the renovation. Um, he's basically just the money person, so I do everything else. Um, you know, he just makes a decision on yes or no to buy the property and then I make all the, with regard to what we're going to do and how we're gonna do it and um , getting bids and managing everything. And he just basically writes the checks.

Oh, got it. Yeah, for sure.

Can get complicated otherwise.

Oh yeah, absolutely. Too many cooks can be in the kitchen. Um, yeah. Yup . I totally agree. Okay. So , um, okay, awesome. And your first flip was when in 2015 have you always partnered with this specific person or did you partner with somebody else? Um , on your first flipper, how did you do your first flip?

No, actually my very first flip and the two after that were not with a partner. They were just myself and my husband and that was with hard money lenders. Got it . Yup . First [inaudible] um, and then after that I took a break cause I was pregnant with my third kid and it was all a little overwhelming and um, we can talk about that if you, not if you want or not. But the third slip was a little bit challenging and I was like, okay , I need to stop for a little bit , um , focus on other things and then maybe come back to it.

Yes .

Right. For about a little over a year and didn't do any flips or anything, did some design work. But um, but yeah, so that was , um , hard money for the first three and then every, everyone since then has been with this partner.

Okay. Awesome. I totally want to talk about the , the flip that was challenging. I think those are those, you know , the ones that go so perfectly, like those are great and all, but let's be realistic. The ones that have the challenges are the best learning. I mean they're the best ones for people to learn from. So yeah. Walk me through, walk me through what, whatever you want to about that project. Like what went down, what the challenges were and that sort of thing.

Okay. Well the, I guess number, the second and third ones that I did were both challenging in different ways. The first one, I mean every, every slip that I've done has, have had their own challenges, especially as I've kind of worked my way through how I'm doing things and what I'm doing and who is helping me and all of that.

Oh, for sure. Yeah .

First, the first one, you know, was very much a learning experience cause I was just trying to figure my way through things. Um, but it, it financially it was, it was profitable. I think we made around $60,000 net at the end. So I was happy with that. Um, and then so we went move forward with the second and the third one was with a partner. Um , the second one was fill myself with a hard money lender. Um, the second one was challenging because I had a bad contractor experiences, really bad contractor experience. Like as in the guy who I hired to do all of the demo I'm putting in the windows, the siding , um, all kinds of structural exterior stuff and it was a pretty big that job. He , um, he was really organized and lacked Niana I guess he had a lot of jobs going on at the time. And while we were away for Christmas break, I came back to the project and the entire back patio was gone, like torn out by a Bobcat or something in a pile in the backyard. That was not what I was planning, cause that was not in the budget to tear that out and redo it. It was, it was fine. It had some cracks , but whatever. So it was gone and I was like, what happened? And so the first, my first question was asked this guy, Hey, send him pictures. What happened to my back patio. This was not in the school. It's like this never supposed to be sort out. And he denied having anything to do with it. And I was like, well, who would just um , trespass onto the property, bring their Bobcat and tear out somebody's back patio. That's just not something that happened. Um, and he said, I don't know. I don't know what happened. I mean I have no idea. And I was like, okay, this is really weird and shady. And so , um, I come to find out, find out that one of the neighbors had seen a truck with his logo on it, pull up with a Bobcat. Um, so I had , um, circumstantial evidence. So I told him that any weeks and weeks later he finally admitted to it that he had torn off the patio. Uh , he had sent his crew to the wrong address. They were supposed to go to a different house in terrace patio.

Oh my gosh,

my project and tore out the patio. Um, so [inaudible] I was number two that I was the big thing. I had lots of other problems with that guy. But , um, that was the biggest nightmare of that.

What was the resolution there? Like financially

okay .

Was that,

well, there was eventually in that he, he finally, after I sit , told him that people had seen him. He finally admitted to it that it was him, that he had sent his crew to the wrong address and then he said he would redo the patio, which he did after probably two months of daily calls and emails asking, Hey, when's this going to happen? When is this happening? You said you're going to fix it. Like, do I have to file a police report for trespassing and for , uh , you know, at that point I didn't even know. I was like, ah , vandalism, what do you call when somebody accidentally destroyed the part of your house that you owe or , or accidentally or on purpose. Um, but yeah, so he finally reported the back patio. Um , we never really fixed the landscaping that was messed up along it and everything, but you know, at that point it was, it was just time to move on.

Oh my gosh. Yeah. So after that, right. It's like you want them to resolve it but you're done with them. So it's like ,

I never want to see you or talk to you again. I just want to finish this house. Um, so I did that, that one and I ha and then I started the third project kind of while that was ongoing, I had a partner with that one. Um, I don't know how much I can go into detail on this third one because there is still a loss to , um , that we're talking about with that one. Um , it's underway. We are the complaintant's that with a , with a lawsuit basically having to do with , um, undisclosed plumbing issues , um, relating to the sewer line. Um, like I said, I don't know how much detail I can go into that one, but , um, I'll just say that , um, in previous buyers on that property had done some plumbing testing and um, tried to negotiate the sales price with the seller. Um , they declined, they didn't update the seller's disclosure and also they, all they did was put a random document in the MLS files that had , um, a link to like a random hyperlink to a video of the test from the plumbing , um, on like page four of a blank document. Um, and , uh, our realtor never gave us that document or told us that it existed. Um , and they never updated seller's disclosure. So we found out all this after we purchased the house.

Oh my gosh. What a , what a nightmare. And that was in what, 2016, 2007

that was in 2016. Nina , it's leanness . Needless to say, after that one, I took a break because you know , those last two have had some challenges and , right. Okay , okay . You want to do this

like nationally

forming houses, but the, you know, all of the learning lessons were, were big lessons that I learned, so.

Absolutely. Absolutely. So was it hard for you, and I ask this because been there, was it hard for you to , so that was the third flip that was so troubling. Was it, was it hard to [inaudible] harder than normal for you to pull the trigger on the fourth ? Mmm .

Mm . I w you would think it would be, but I am kind of risk averse and I'm not scared of taking risks is probably as scared as most people, like on a scale. I'm definitely at the higher end of, of taking risks. Um, and that's just, I've always been that way. I've always had my own businesses. I don't like working for other people , um, that sort of thing. So I felt much more comfortable with the fourth one because that had taken a long break and kind of reevaluated everything. And I had a plan and I had this , um, partner and I was super excited about the aspect of not having hard money loans anymore and of having someone taking the financial stress off of it for me was a big, a big part of it too because that was one of the biggest stressors with hard money lending is you have that big down payment and then you have those big monthly payments that are interest only. And if you don't sell house and you're still paying those monthly payments and um, you know, it , it really adds up.

Oh yeah. For sure. For sure.

It doesn't think so. Having that take them stress taking out of it , um , was huge for me. And I was like, because I can focus on everything else and not worry about the financial stress while still trying while still kind of in my mind back in my mind pretending that it's my money because that's, you know, you have to be, you still have to be careful. You're using somebody else's money. Um , and that takes a lot of , um, you know, respect and everything. So yeah, a lot of , a lot of stress off of me. So I was excited for that. Um, and I was ready to get back into it and I felt excited about the project we were going to be working on and you know, I was just really excited to make it happen and that was, I was, I was ready for it, so I was a little nervous, but at the same time I was more excited and um, I really wanted this one to be successful so that he would want to continue to partner with me on , on more. So that was kind of my goal.

The break kind of helped you get your confidence back in the whole process? Yeah . Um, okay. The, your partner, is that a personal relationship? Like is that a friend or was it somebody random? How did you connect with your private money?

Um , he is , uh, one of my good friends , old bosses, so it was a personal connection. I didn't necessarily go out seeking him, but my friend was talking about me and he had always been interested in doing real estate investing, but he doesn't have the time to do it. He just has the money to do it. So it, you know, it seemed perfect. And he had actually asked her if I would ever be interested in partnering, partnering and she asked me and I said, well, yes, definitely. Um, so I, you know, I had a meeting with him, I brought him all, all information and the picture and the details and kind of did a presentation and he said, well , you know, I'm interested but let's try to find something. So it actually in that, that year long break where , um , I was busy being pregnant and having another child, hi. I was also kind of started slowly sending him, sending him deals and um, I think he just took his time as well, like trying to decide on , uh , to pull the trigger. So the timing worked out where he was the , and I was ready.

Yeah. Awesome. Yeah ,

it's been great.

Yeah , I think , um, it has been my experience that people hear about what you're doing or see what you're doing. And if they are like that, they have the money, they don't have the time. They don't necessarily want to do the renovating. They really just want to invest. Right. Like that's what they want to do. Yeah . I feel like they will, they will find you because just like you said, your friends are going to be talking about you. Um, money, we'll find a deals that's finding, getting the deals, get the deals and money, we'll find them. So yeah . Okay.

If you have a , a , you know, a little bit of a proven track record or you can really kind of say what you're going to be doing and how you're going to be doing it and how you're gonna manage everything. I think all of that is important cause I think people want to know that they can trust you with their money and that you're thinking of it as it , as if it were your own money in that, you know, there are so many aspects to flipping a house and some things you may not be as good at or , or like to do. Like me, I hate the accounting part of it, but I know it's important. So, you know, we have a whole system that we use where I immediate , every time I make a purchase, I send him a receipt, I ever get reimbursed or I use his card and I let him know that the purchase is happening. And then I request checks when I need them. And you know, we keep a spreadsheet and all of that stuff. So all those little details are kind of important too ,

right? Absolutely. Yeah .

In the beginning and that lined up so that you know how it's all gonna work out.

Yeah , absolutely. And um,

but it's necessary.

Exactly. And here's the thing, a lot of people aren't willing to do the things that they don't want to do, but that they're necessary to do like , right. Like we are going to just, it's , we seem very similar. We're going to handle whatever needs to be handled and if you're not that way, you just need to know that you need to outsource that. So grab somebody who is good at that piece, you know, an accountant, a bookkeeper, whatever. Hire somebody to do it, but it has to be done. Like ignoring it isn't the way, right . It doesn't make it go

well . Probably not want to partner with you .

Exactly. Um, okay . Awesome. I also want to talk to you about something else because I hear this all the time and I, and I recently talked to Adele tan about this. Um, you find your deals on the MLS.

Yes .

Yup . Okay. So you are in a super hot market, Austin, Texas, and you are telling me that you can still find deals on the MLS. So are you, and I agree. Um, a lot of people though, I hear, you know, it's one of the big objections aren't any deals, so are you, I know that you're in a higher [inaudible] price range and so there, so that alone will weed out some of the competition because a lot of people think smaller Weber's equals safer. And honestly, I like bigger numbers because the pro , the margins are better. Right. Again, even if it's the same margin, the numbers are better. Yeah . So, okay, so maybe less competition. And are you [inaudible] looking at withdrawns or expireds? Are you just watching like a house that's been on the market awhile or do you just watch and see something that grabs your eye?

Um , it's, it's both. Um , so out of the, out of the 10 flips that I've done, or I have in progress, all but one have been from the MLS and one was a wholesale deal. So most of those have [inaudible] in houses that have been sitting on the market for a while . That's probably my favorite kind because usually if it's sitting on the market for a while , um, there's a reason in that it needs to be remodeled. People don't know what to do. Um, they're a little scared of it. Sometimes they're too scary. Even for me. That's definitely happened. But , um , it's not always the case where I can't walk into a house. And I think that's one of the things that I'm probably good at is figuring out picture, being able to picture what it could be fun finding them. Um , that had been sitting for awhile . I'm not scared. I'm a licensed real estate agent so I can at this point I wasn't for the first three flips, but I have been for the one since then got my license in the process of when I was having a baby and all that as part of my plan. And um , I have , um, I just look on the MLS , um, look for ones that are sitting. Um , I'm not scared to make a low ball offer if I have to. Um, I'm not scared of rejection. I obviously lose a lot of deals that way. Um, but surprisingly I'm often surprised on that people are a lot of times willing to negotiate because they're motivated to sell, you know, their agent is ready to get them to sell because the house has been on the market for 60 or 90 days or longer. And uh, you know, like just takes a little bit of finessing and negotiation and um, it, it works for me. So yeah, so usually like an I am looking in the higher price ranges. Oh , I see . Um, 500 to $600,000 range. Um, and usually I'm offering 25 to 50, sometimes even 75,000 less than the listed than the current asking price.

Got it. Okay.

No, usually a lot of times I'll reach out to the agent before I make an offer. I almost always will and just say, Hey, you know, I know this house has been on the market awhile, my client , because I know my client is the investor is where is looking to pay in this range? Do you think your , your seller would even consider that? And sometimes they'll say, yes, there's been an awful, we'll see what happens. And so

it's so much,

it wouldn't make sense . Hell no. And sometimes I do and they say, Hey, we won't go this far, but we'll take 30,000 off. And that's a starting point.

Yeah .

And we negotiated for more.

Yup. Yup. And I mean that's one of the benefits of getting properties off the MLS versus using going through a wholesaler. So each one each way has, you know , pros and cons. But yeah, that's one of the benefits is that you actually have an inspection period and , and , and uh , you know, it's a typical contract. Um, it's a typical process. So as if you were buying a house that you were going to live in. So, yeah, I love that. I mean, it's [inaudible] if people would just put, make offers that are justifiable, like as long as I could justify an offer, I'll make an offer all day long. Why, why not? You know? So making offers that are justifiable. And I think it's, it's different when you, as an agent, because I'm also a broker, so, right. Like, if, if I receive an offer that is 50 grand below asking and it's just an offer, there's never been a conversation, there's not even an like , uh , the body of the email doesn't even have any information. Right. It's just an offer. I will put zero weight on that. Like I will, I , it will anger me, but if I get an offer that, or even somebody calls and says, Hey, it might seem low, would they even entertain this? Like, is it worth it to write this offer up? And then you send an offer and you justify it. Like you say, like, this is why and if we can make it work, great, but there's a very different energy behind that versus just blasting out low ball offers to everyone and hoping something sticks.

Sure. Yeah. My , my goal is really not to offend anybody or waste anybody's time, especially the agent and the seller. So I always want to approach it as kindly as I can and just saying like, Hey, I'm trying to help you. I'm trying to help myself and my seller or my buyer. Um, you know, let's see if we can work something out and if we can't, then, you know, all it took was an email reply and tell me, no, that's not gonna happen ever. Or Hey, you know, maybe so let's try it. So.

Absolutely. Yup . I think that's absolutely it . It's, it's so important and I mean relationships, right? It's such a relationship business and you never know. Agents. I get calls from agents who say, Hey, I have this deal. I saw that you've flipped this house. I've heard good things about you. I have a deal in the same neighborhood. Would you be interested? Yes, I would for calling me.

Yeah , that's true. I do the same thing I get , um , I have a few agents that will call me now who I've either purchased houses from them that they had listed as split , not listen to slips , but that I purchased them to flip them and they'll say, Hey, I have another fixer up, or a house that needs a lot of work. Do you think you'd be interested? And I'm like, yes. Send me the details.

Yes. It's awesome. Absolutely. It's a, it's such a relationship business and just having one more person out there who thinks of you, you know, and thinks , you know what, maybe maybe Heather would want this, I'll reach out to her. Like that's, that's just easy, easy marketing. Really.

Yeah .

Okay. So finding these deals on the MLS, go make offers people. That's the message from there. Um, and then I'm wanting to talk to you about managing your contractors. So we both , um, our project managers, we manage our own projects and which is awesome. I highly recommend it for many reasons. If that's your thing, if it's not your thing, find somebody who Keon manage the project. Um, so one difference that came up recently is I tend to find one main crew that can do the majority, like 90% of the work. Anything that doesn't require a license, like plumbing, electrical and mechanical, and you kind of piece it together. And so I want to talk to you about that because it's, I love that. I love that. Different ways of running your business and running a project work and there's not a one size fits all and it's absolutely what works for you. So yes , I guess what do you feel like [inaudible] do

you feel like there's a, there are different challenges for you or do you feel like there are different benefits for the way that you do it? Huh. I think for me , um, the benefit is, well first of all I will say it took a while . Like the first three projects were kind of trial and error on figuring out how am I going to do this? Um, can I find a good crew? And I would have probably been open at the time to finding one person to do it all. But my experience with having one person do it all in the case of, of those that are do like more than one part was, was bad in that I found the guy to do , um, let's say refinishing the floors. And then he also laid the tile and he did a great job on refinishing the floors and a horrible job on laying the tile. And I was like, Oh my gosh, this is not great. I have to fix this. I ended up installing the backsplash tile myself because I didn't trust [inaudible] .

I mean it was

of those things where I was like, okay, maybe I need to try to find someone who does only those things to do those things so that I can make sure that they're doing it the way that I want it to do it, them to do it and I'm happy with the end result. So it kind of was trial and error in that way. As I figured for me, the best way to do it was to find specialists in those areas and have them do those parts of the project. Now it takes more time because you know your schedule, it's a lot of scheduling. It's a lot of communication and trying to figure out who is going to be there when, and um , you don't want 15 people working in one small bathroom because they're going to get annoyed and somebody's going to leave and you know , that sort of thing. So it's definitely , um , a lot of, a lot of management to do it that way. But it works because I've finally to the point where I feel like I have my people that I call for each thing and they're each really great at what they do. Um , so I can count on them to be able to do just tile or just drywall and paint, just trim and closet, finished carpentry. I've got a cabinet guy, of course , counter top people, so framers, all of that, plumbers and electricians who are licensed who do all of their thing and the HVAC guys. So for me it's just , um, everybody does their thing and um, and you know, it works out in the end where I feel like everybody knows how I like things to be done and they do their job and they're in and out eventually. And , um, and it just works. It works out, you know , the way that , um , the way that I'm hoping it will for the most part. So , um , I did take a long time to find these people that I like because , um, you know, there's, there's great towel guys and there's not so good tile guys and there's great tall guys who are crazy expensive. And then there's horrible tile guys who are too expensive for the kind of work they're doing. So it's a little bit of trial and error. Um, but you know, now that I've got that crew , um, you know, they all kind of started to know each other too, so it works out because they can communicate with each other in addition to with me. So it works out.

Yeah. That's awesome. I love it. I love that. Different ways work. I love it. There's no one knows, no one size fits all. And just like you said, through trial and error, you're going to figure out what works best for you. So you may be, you may start doing it one way and then decide I don't want to do it that way. And you shift gears and you try something else. It's never like set in stone that you have to do it one way forever . And ever.

I, you know, I will say too, luckily with the flexibility of my schedule, I'm always working for myself. I've been able to have the time to manage everybody. But if I was flipping a house and at the same time I had a full time job, I don't think there's any way I could could do it this way because it takes so much time. Like I always am running around doing site visits in the, in the mornings usually in checking up on the work being done and there's always questions [inaudible] I can see them and if it's also of having either a general contractor, if you don't have the time to manage it yourself or having one person who does it all and it's just one point of communication for you versus having to talk to, you know, eight to 10 different trades throughout the course of the project. So like you said, there's a million ways to do it and there's a way to make all of those ways work. It just depends on what, what's best for your personality and for your time and all of that.

Yeah, absolutely. Very well said. Um, okay. Let's see. What else can we talk about that I am forgetting because of my mushy fortysomething brain. Um, is there anything that [inaudible] you wish you had known when you, maybe before your first flip, like looking back, is there anything you wish you had known or wish had you had done differently in terms of, I don't know, I guess what, is there a piece of advice that you would give to somebody starting out that you wish you had known?

There are so many things I wish [inaudible]

right. Let me kick my feet up

at the same . I know. At the same time I would say that there's not a ton of things I would change other than hiring that guy who tore out the back patio.

It's awful.

Uh , because every single thing that's gone wrong, I have learned a lesson from, and for the most part, I have not made that mistake again.

Absolutely.

In that way. I think one of the most important things is to try not to let all the little things that go wrong because there will be little things that go wrong. And the little beach, huge things potentially that go wrong. Try not to let them get you so down and try to take it as a little, a little lesson, a learning lesson and apply that to the next time knowing that, okay, you're not going to make that mistake again. Um , you know, even simple things like, okay , the , the light fixtures in the wrong place. There's a door there and you're , you know, you can't open the door without hitting the ceiling fan. That's good . Next time you'll know to look for that before you put the drywall in, like little things. You're just going to learn so many lessons and as long as you're kind of juggling, tugging along and um, you know, growing every time, then I think that it's worth it. Just knowing that you're going to get better and better at what you're doing.

Absolutely.

You're enjoying it and loving it then. I think that's , that's probably one of the most important things.

Yeah, totally. Totally. And you are so right that every single, every single project, there's something different to learn. I mean, every single project, it's 11 years later, I'm still learning, learning things and it's like, you know , and but thank goodness because I would, my brain would be so bored. I love to learn. Yeah . So I like, it's not always fun. Like I don't necessarily want to learn these lessons, but on the other hand I would get really bored if it was just the same old, same old, go through this process, expect all the same things. There's not, there aren't any surprises. I love everything about the entire process and even the hard parts. So yeah, you have to be resilient. You have to be able to balance back, not just freak out and freeze and not get into action and resolve whatever the situation is.

Yeah, and you have to , that's another thing, I think that is important and you'll kind of learn, you have to be a problem solver. And if you're not naturally inclined to that, you'll have to figure out how to be one, because there's going to be things that require resolution. And it's not always the clear path for how to solve that problem. So sometimes you have to , um , come up with an alternative solution or bring in someone else to try to , um, solve that problem. So I think , um , being adaptable and, and , um, not so fixed in your mindset on there's only one way to do things that fix things that come up as another big thing because , um, you know, you can never kind of predict what's going to happen with when you're remodeling a house. Um, no matter how good your plans are, somethings are going to change. Something's going to be in the wrong place. Something's going to be in the way. A door's going to be too small or , um, you know, your cabinets going to be too big.

[inaudible] not going to fit. There's going to be something,

as long as you can kind of working with way to fix it, then it's not the end of the world.

Absolutely. Yep . Absolutely. Absolutely.

That's the other, another thing I would say too is whatever timeline you're thinking in your head, probably add, you know, add two to four weeks onto that as a minimum because it's probably going to take longer than you think.

That's going to cost a little bit more than you think. Right, right, right. Totally.

So other thing was being flexible and being easy going about the whole thing is you have to just , um , you can't let all those little things get you down, you know, it's take will take you longer than you thought. Well, you know , it's just this,

absolutely. Yep . 100% agree. I think people who are prone to feeling stress easily and not being able to move past it quickly, they probably, their role probably shouldn't be managing the project. They can still be involved, but it probably shouldn't be the day to day project management stuff because they will not be happy. Like that's not their zone of genius and they will not be happy. I think. Um, and like you said, problem solving. I mean, I say it all the time. This is what I think flipping houses is, it's, it's managing the three P's . So managing people, the project and problems, that's, that's it . That's what we do every single time. And problems are always coming up again. It's why I love flipping houses because it's just, you know, problem solving and puzzles, puzzle solving, all of those nerdy things that I like to do. So I love talking to someone else. Yeah. I love talking to someone else who likes the same things.

Yeah, I mean if , if it's such a great feeling when you come up with a resolution to what seems like a hugely daunting problem and you're like, it's actually a better resolution than maybe the original resolution or this is going to look even better than what I was planning originally. So you just have to kind of be open to that and you know , sometimes it's even better.

Yep , absolutely. Totally agree. Yes. Well I ever, any time where I'd

go out and site visit and there's not some kind of problem, usually it's a minor problem or question, but it's always something, especially when you're doing, like when I've gotten to the point of doing these hugely crazy remodels where you're changing the floor plan and completely redoing the shell of the house, there's some things.

Oh yeah, for sure. For sure. And, yeah, and if that kind of thing is going to [inaudible] you know , [inaudible] I dunno know you too much. It's, you probably should fulfill the role of project manager but you can still be involved. Maybe you're an investor, maybe you're whatever, but project managing probably isn't going to be your , your favorite place to be in the project.

Yeah ,

definitely. Well, awesome. All right . Is there anything else that you want to share before we wrap up this call?

Um , not specifically that I can think of. I think the only other thing I would say that is one of the most important lessons that I've learned and I'm still learning is to trust your gut when it comes to the people that you're working with and the people that you're hiring. Um, and you know, if something, does it feel right or seem right, then there's a reason and you're, you're probably right in that feeling.

Yes. Excellent.

That's the one of the hugest lessons. And it's hard for me because I'm a people pleaser. I want to, I don't want people to be uncomfortable, but at the same time, like there was a contractor, a guy that I recently hired to do concrete work and he seemed, I didn't really like him from the beginning, but everything he was saying was right. And I just kinda had a Nicky feeling. But yeah , I ha I ended up hiring him because he seemed, he seemed so great, but at the same time, weird. And he did a job and it was okay. It was pretty, it was acceptable, his price was good. And then he was like, Oh, I have, he was always calling me, looking for roadwork . And I was like, okay, well he wants me to work here. Can you do this demo? And so hired him, did a demo and then I gave him too much of a deposit. Big , you know , people, when you start working with people and then you're like, Oh, I need [inaudible] , it's an extra whatever. And I had that feeling and I was like, I shouldn't buddy did this other project and it was fine. Um, and, you know, I, and then he stopped answering my calls and calling him a McGuire are you and the [inaudible] [inaudible] and I was kicking myself because I knew better. I should have listened to my, my gut , but I did it. Um, and he was supposed to finish this project and he , he basically, he never did and I had to hire somebody else. And um, so trust your gut, that's what leads down to 'em and get as much as you can. Make sure you have a contract, make sure you stick to the deposit amounts. Even if they're just telling you they need money for, to pay their employees because it's Friday or whatever, if they haven't been yet the work that they need to finish to get that next portion of the payment, don't give it to them.

Yeah . All of that is so important. I , I'm , I'm , I have a humongous grin on my face because I'm like, yes, I totally get all of that . Then they're like, totally. And trusting your gut.

Yeah. And it's different. I will say it's a little different if you've been working with like , like you've had the same crew for years , so you know if the guy needs an extra couple hundred dollars and you've been working with them for years, you know he's not going to run off with it. Like I totally do that. I've done that before with a few of the people that I've been working with first for several years. I trust them. I know they're not going to bail, but for someone that you've got started working with or it's only been a short amount of time and you're just not sure, and if you have that feeling, especially just don't do it.

Yup , totally agreed. Yeah, absolutely. It , it , I'm glad that you clarified it doesn't mean that you can't ever help that person out. It's when you don't have any track record with them. Just be careful. Yeah. Like it might, it might not be the best idea and listen to your gut because it could , it could be telling you something

[inaudible] yeah. A lot of times, you know , and maybe not maybe, but at least you won't regret it later.

Absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah, and that's how the call ended because the cell phone gods wouldn't have it any other way. Anyway, there were some really helpful nuggets and pieces of advice and wisdom that Heather shared and I'm grateful for her taking the time out to visit with us and share part of her story with us. All right . If you are sick of watching from the sideline as other people successfully flip houses in your market and you're frustrated and you just need help, go-to first, flip done right.com and get on the wait list , doors will open again in January and 2020 is looking to be one heck of a year and we want to share that journey with you. All right , first flip done right.com put your name on the wait list. All right , you guys. Until next time, go out there. Flip houses like a girl. Leave people and places better than you find them and make it a great day. Bye y'all .